M5 RangeFinder Patch - Weird Lines

[hawkhanlumist]

Hi All -

I only recently purchased an M5. It looks to be in very good condition save for some strange, thin squiggly lines in rangefinder patch.



I know this isn't the best photo, however, you can sort of see what I am talking about. I have done some basic internet googling so I have some idea about what might be going on. But can someone tell me what this might be and what the remedy/ potential solutions available to me might be?

Many thanks for any help/ advice/ information that you might have.

HKL

 

[Rob-F]

"Squiggly lines" sounds like delamination, which is a possibility for the M5, given its age. But I didn't see anything in the photo that looked like the delamination i see in my M2. Let's wait and see what the others think.

 

[Huss]

Return it. I bought one like that before I knew better, and after a couple of months the RF delaminated/separated rendering it useless. It was a $400 fix.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

Hi Huss - thanks for the input. The consensus seems to be decementing/ delaminating of the framelines mask. (I think that is the right terminology - I have to admit this a bit of new territory for me).

I have done a bit more digging/ asking of repair techs and from what I understand - the M5 frameset isn't made, so if you don't luck out with a repair tech having an M5 frameset lying around, you need to get an M6 frameset as well as some kind of rangefinder patch upgrade that is from the MP, because the m6 frameset is missing some other random piece.

Huss - can you recall what the fix comprised and who you used?

Return it. I bought one like that before I knew better, and after a couple of months the RF delaminated/separated rendering it useless. It was a $400 fix.

 

[Huss]

Hi Huss - thanks for the input. The consensus seems to be decementing/ delaminating of the framelines mask. (I think that is the right terminology - I have to admit this a bit of new territory for me).

I have done a bit more digging/ asking of repair techs and from what I understand - the M5 frameset isn't made, so if you don't luck out with a repair tech having an M5 frameset lying around, you need to get an M6 frameset as well as some kind of rangefinder patch upgrade that is from the MP, because the m6 frameset is missing some other random piece.

Huss - can you recall what the fix comprised and who you used?

I used Sherry Krauter but was not happy with her work as she put in a frame set with 28mm and 75mm lines - perhaps that was all that was available to her. But, much more seriously, after I got it back from her the RF patch would flare and wash out like crazy. It never did that, and when I asked her she denied any knowledge of what was wrong or what could have caused it.

So... I sent it to DAG who said the condenser was missing... He replaced that and while he was at it masked off the 75mm frame lines, so the 50mm view was clear again.

Bottom line, if you keep it send it to DAG to get fixed. If you just got it, ask for your money back. Unless you are happy with the price you paid for it, its general condition, and don't mind forking out $400 to get it fixed. Because it will fail.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

I used Sherry Krauter but was not happy with her work as she put in a frame set with 28mm and 75mm lines - perhaps that was all that was available to her. But, much more seriously, after I got it back from her the RF patch would flare and wash out like crazy. It never did that, and when I asked her she denied any knowledge of what was wrong or what could have caused it.

So... I sent it to DAG who said the condenser was missing... He replaced that and while he was at it masked off the 75mm frame lines, so the 50mm view was clear again.

Bottom line, if you keep it send it to DAG to get fixed. If you just got it, ask for your money back. Unless you are happy with the price you paid for it, its general condition, and don't mind forking out $400 to get it fixed. Because it will fail.

Ok- Thanks for the info. This is all really helpful info.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have my M4-2 with some shapes in RF patch. I can't remember then they showed up for first time. But nothing is quickly rendering to be useless so far.

I see nothing in OP picture comparing to shapes I see in my M4-2 RF patch.
But I see not aligned RF images, I guess.

If RF prism separates it is not 400$. It is under 200$ according to YYe price list.

 

[Huss]

I have my M4-2 with some shapes in RF patch. I can't remember then they showed up for first time. But nothing is quickly rendering to be useless so far.

I see nothing in OP picture comparing to shapes I see in my M4-2 RF patch.
But I see not aligned RF images, I guess.

If RF prism separates it is not 400$. It is under 200$ according to YYe price list.

YYe does not touch the M5. Different parts.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

YYe does not touch the M5. Different parts.

Do prism separation fix (a.k.a recement) includes any parts? :

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137673

 

[Huss]

Do prism separation fix (a.k.a recement) includes any parts?

It also needs a new frame set when they fix it. You can check with DAG or Sherry.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

I have my M4-2 with some shapes in RF patch. I can't remember then they showed up for first time. But nothing is quickly rendering to be useless so far.

I see nothing in OP picture comparing to shapes I see in my M4-2 RF patch.
But I see not aligned RF images, I guess.

If RF prism separates it is not 400$. It is under 200$ according to YYe price list.

The photo I provided was as good as I could get. I might try cropping the original file to show you what I mean.

From what I have read and understand, it is a question of when, not if. Considering this wasn't mentioned by the seller, I am certainly going to go back to them with an RFI.

I think it ends up being more pricey with the M5 as it requires some additional work done to protect patch, and not just replace the frameline mask. I am learning all the time.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

This is the same image, but is cropped to hopefully give a more zoomed in view of the patch in question.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Looks like it is still usable.

As the finder of the M5 is one of the finest of all the M's (above all the framelines are great) I would still use it as it is now. I would not replace the viewfinder with a viewfinder of the M6. The M6 has the worst framelines of all the M's.

Erik.

 

[Huss]

Looks like it is still usable.

Mine was like that (I had no idea something was wrong) and was totally usable until the one time I picked it up and the RF patch was black and it was completely unusable.
It's going to fail.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

Mine was like that (I had no idea something was wrong) and was totally usable until the one time I picked it up and the RF patch was black and it was completely unusable.
It's going to fail.

Hi Huss - Sorry to bother you again. But I have a couple more questions.

Did the new frameset retain the metering accuracy of the old frameset? Did it retain the metering 'arcs' for the 50mm frameline that are around the RF Patch that designate what the meter is reading from? Did they synchonise with the meter readout bar?

Thanks in advance.

FYI - I think I will likely keep the camera, and end up renegotiating a price on the basis of a future repair job. The seller has been very straight with me.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

Looks like it is still usable.

As the finder of the M5 is one of the finest of all the M's (above all the framelines are great) I would still use it as it is now. I would not replace the viewfinder with a viewfinder of the M6. The M6 has the worst framelines of all the M's.

Erik.

All true. But as Huss says, it will go eventually.

I like the M5 finder, too. You can have various framelines masked out.

I would prefer to keep the M5 finder, but, you know, what are you gonna do?

 

[Huss]

Hi Huss - Sorry to bother you again. But I have a couple more questions.

Did the new frameset retain the metering accuracy of the old frameset? Did it retain the metering 'arcs' for the 50mm frameline that are around the RF Patch that designate what the meter is reading from? Did they synchonise with the meter readout bar?

Thanks in advance.

FYI - I think I will likely keep the camera, and end up renegotiating a price on the basis of a future repair job. The seller has been very straight with me.

No issues with metering or metering accuracy or readouts.

 

[Mute-on]

Had the same issue with an M4. Looked like fine hairs in the rangefinder patch. It was the rangefinder patch (not the rangefinder itself) delaminating, as Huss had experienced.
Replaced with M4P mask and had 28 and 75 frame lines removed. Looks just like original.


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