M8-2

[Bill Pierce]

Oh goody, a Leica-bashing thread. Not had one of those for a day or two. All the armchair CEOs will be pleased.

Regards,

Bill

Oddly enough, I'm not a CEO. I'm a working stiff who would like to be able to continue to afford tools that have been a mainstay in that work since the M3 and M2 days. Actually, I can afford them. I am more worried about young photographers just starting out and essentially limiting themselves to one tool, the DSLR. The DSLR is incredibly versatile, but it doesn't do everything best.

Bill

 

[Harry Lime]

Exactly. It's not Leica bashing, but an expression of the frustration that as a tool for mere photographers, the M-series has been priced out of the market, for the vast majority of potential buyers.

I've purchased two M bodies and several lenses new, but that was many years ago, when prices were high, but not completely insane. I think I paid $1800 for my M6ttl. This was a store demo unit marked down from $2400, because it had a scratch on the top plate. I would have been willing to spend the full $2400, but got lucky that day. The M8 body is well over $5000 dollars, which is ridiculous for more than one reason.

Leica has reached the point where the pricing of their products, exceeds the value perceived by many customer, unless money is no object for said buyer.

 

[Ronald_H]

Oddly enough, I'm not a CEO. I'm a working stiff who would like to be able to continue to afford tools that have been a mainstay in that work since the M3 and M2 days. Actually, I can afford them. I am more worried about young photographers just starting out and essentially limiting themselves to one tool, the DSLR. The DSLR is incredibly versatile, but it doesn't do everything best.

Bill

I know a few young photgraphers (I am just a middle aged hobbyist 😀). They often have or want a dSLR, but most of them explore the analog world as well. Needless to say, they don't buy Leicas. What do I see? Nikon FE and FM's, even a Pentax Spotmatic.

Yesterday I realized that even though my M2 + 'cron were relatively cheap, very few people would be willing to spend that amount of money on ANY sort of camera. I also realized that my beloved FM + 50mm 'E' cost me one tenth of my Leica set. And if I want to use cheap rangefinders, my Canonet was 20 euros, my Fed-5 a present...

As for new Leica stuff... only for people who have too much money...

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Oddly enough, I'm not a CEO. I'm a working stiff who would like to be able to continue to afford tools that have been a mainstay in that work since the M3 and M2 days. Actually, I can afford them. I am more worried about young photographers just starting out and essentially limiting themselves to one tool, the DSLR. The DSLR is incredibly versatile, but it doesn't do everything best.

Bill

Exactly. I'm a working photographer too and I will never buy a new Leica, ever. Simply beyond anything I will ever be able to afford, and if I ever did become so wealthy, I'd still buy something whose pricing didn't insult my intelligence as a businessman.

When I was about to graduate from High School, my father bought me a new camera to take to art school. He got me a Nikon F4s with Nikon's AF-Nikkor 50mm f1.4 and the SB-25 flash. This was Nikon's top-line equipment at the time (1994) This setup was not cheap, and it was very widely used by working pros at the time. My family was pretty well off back then, but even for someone who could afford to buy his son a camera like the F4, the Leica was simply too expensive (the M6 was the Leica of the time). The body alone cost more than my whole F4s setup cost, and I'd have needed a lens for it. Since then, I have bought my own equipment and I have never made near what my father earned, and I am a professional photographer. I don't know a single pro who uses Leica, all of them I have ever met used Nikon, Canon, Mamiya, or Hasselblad. Even Hasselblads, costly as they were, were a bargain compared to an M6 and a 50mm f1.4 lens.

 

[Harry Lime]

Even Hasselblads, costly as they were, were a bargain compared to an M6 and a 50mm f1.4 lens.

I don't know if I would go that far. I priced a Blad system, back when MF was still the format of choice for many studio shooters. Made a Leica look downright cheap...
their top of the line body (2xx?) with the zone system exposure system was around $10,000.

But things have changed. You can pick up a clean 5xx body, with back and the 2.8/80mm for $1000-1200.

 

[Ronald M]

Prediction! New M digi will come with the upgrades built in. The upgrade program will continue as it was sucessfull in the screwmount days. I will not predict full frame.

I don`t think I will ever buy another new Leica RF. Have pleanty of film ones and still have most of my marbles. There is no way to justify $5500 for a digi Leica.

Now a digi R, well maybe as I could use my R glass, well maybe again as they will not say. But I got a Nikon D200 and a dozen lenses and it does what I need. Again their price will be INSANE. With film, there is a difference for sure, small but there. With digi, the difference shrinks. I think it is by by Leica.