honeyhype
Newbie
Hi,
I'm very new to RFF and needing some advice...
I have a D90 and GF1 at the moment (and a whole bunch of film SLR and fixed lens RF) and my thought is to get an M8 to replace them. I take very casual street shots, landscapes, candids and portraits most of the time. I find that I have my GF1 in my bag 99% of the time while the DSLR is for those rare events like concerts and sports (2 or 3 times in the whole year at most!)
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has asked this, but would like to hear opinions on what the transition is like? My only concern is focusing speed and continuous burst mode which does come into handy sometimes. As I said, I still don't know a great deal about the Leicas. I'm also actually torn between the M8 to replace those two digitals OR get an M6 to replace the DSLR and keep the GF1.
I'm currently still a uni student so can't justify purchasing without first selling off unused gear. Appreciate any helpful input! Cheers
I'm very new to RFF and needing some advice...
I have a D90 and GF1 at the moment (and a whole bunch of film SLR and fixed lens RF) and my thought is to get an M8 to replace them. I take very casual street shots, landscapes, candids and portraits most of the time. I find that I have my GF1 in my bag 99% of the time while the DSLR is for those rare events like concerts and sports (2 or 3 times in the whole year at most!)
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has asked this, but would like to hear opinions on what the transition is like? My only concern is focusing speed and continuous burst mode which does come into handy sometimes. As I said, I still don't know a great deal about the Leicas. I'm also actually torn between the M8 to replace those two digitals OR get an M6 to replace the DSLR and keep the GF1.
I'm currently still a uni student so can't justify purchasing without first selling off unused gear. Appreciate any helpful input! Cheers
peterm1
Veteran
I find these questions dreadfully hard to answer as buying and using a camera is essentially (for most of us) an emotional as much as a rational decision. Its just that personal.
There is no doubt that with your type of photographic subjects you could get away with an RF camera most of the time. The question is will you enjoy it. Only you can answer that because as you have realized shooting with a digital rangefinder is a bit different from shooting with a DSLR in terms of the "feel" of doing it. (eg manual focusing)
Also, technically the M8 is a bit primitive on many fronts compared to the better DSLRs. So if you are a hard core technophile you may find yourself better served by a DSLR.
If you are an "old style " shooter who liked shooting classic cameras or are just interested in getting the best results on the other hand then you should be satisfied with an M8.
I was a Leica M shooter in my film shooting days and since moving to digital I have moved to shooting DSLRs almost exclusively. Until recently that is. I have just bought a second hand M8.
In my case I am loving it. Mainly due to the results this camera seems to be capable of producing. With my DSLR images I would have to post process quite extensively just to get good quality images. Now I did not mind that (and do not mind it.) But there is no denying its a time consuming necessity if you are serious about image quality. With my M8 on the other hand I find that the images come out of the camera needing very little post processing. They are that good. The images are sharp, have good color and nice tones. What more can you ask?
There is one other consideration. The cost. These cameras are still expensive. And more to the point so are the lenses. You can shoot with Russian glass (for example) or Canon screw mount glass with an adapter. But you will probably eventually succumb to the siren call of "proper" late era Leica glass. And it is not cheap.
So the answer I am afraid is yes and no; how long is a piece of string and it all depends. Maybe you can rent an M8 for a weekend and try one out. That will give you a feel for it and may help answer your question.
There is no doubt that with your type of photographic subjects you could get away with an RF camera most of the time. The question is will you enjoy it. Only you can answer that because as you have realized shooting with a digital rangefinder is a bit different from shooting with a DSLR in terms of the "feel" of doing it. (eg manual focusing)
Also, technically the M8 is a bit primitive on many fronts compared to the better DSLRs. So if you are a hard core technophile you may find yourself better served by a DSLR.
If you are an "old style " shooter who liked shooting classic cameras or are just interested in getting the best results on the other hand then you should be satisfied with an M8.
I was a Leica M shooter in my film shooting days and since moving to digital I have moved to shooting DSLRs almost exclusively. Until recently that is. I have just bought a second hand M8.
In my case I am loving it. Mainly due to the results this camera seems to be capable of producing. With my DSLR images I would have to post process quite extensively just to get good quality images. Now I did not mind that (and do not mind it.) But there is no denying its a time consuming necessity if you are serious about image quality. With my M8 on the other hand I find that the images come out of the camera needing very little post processing. They are that good. The images are sharp, have good color and nice tones. What more can you ask?
There is one other consideration. The cost. These cameras are still expensive. And more to the point so are the lenses. You can shoot with Russian glass (for example) or Canon screw mount glass with an adapter. But you will probably eventually succumb to the siren call of "proper" late era Leica glass. And it is not cheap.
So the answer I am afraid is yes and no; how long is a piece of string and it all depends. Maybe you can rent an M8 for a weekend and try one out. That will give you a feel for it and may help answer your question.
Damaso
Photojournalist
If you are really concerned with things like burst speed and focusing then a rangefinder might not be for you. Then again from what it sounds like you do 90%+ of the time a RF would be fine. I made the switch and am much happier than when I was lugging around my DSLR...
MCTuomey
Veteran
i have a dSLR for sportshooting which i do a lot (many thousand clicks a year). also to be able to use my tilt-shift and macro canon lenses (superb glass).
i'm fortunate to have an M8 for the uses the OP mentions - street, candids, etc. i like using rangefinders. i sure don't require one. i'd even say it's a luxury, for me. like peter i think the file quality is very attractive, made even more so by the wonderful lenses available for M-bodies. and the feel of a leica in use is big fun.
if i had to restrict myself to one camera, it wouldn't be an RF because it wouldn't meet all my needs. i'd get a couple small manual focus lenses (contax, zeiss, vc) to put on my dSLR for street, candids, etc and i'd be good to go.
i'm fortunate to have an M8 for the uses the OP mentions - street, candids, etc. i like using rangefinders. i sure don't require one. i'd even say it's a luxury, for me. like peter i think the file quality is very attractive, made even more so by the wonderful lenses available for M-bodies. and the feel of a leica in use is big fun.
if i had to restrict myself to one camera, it wouldn't be an RF because it wouldn't meet all my needs. i'd get a couple small manual focus lenses (contax, zeiss, vc) to put on my dSLR for street, candids, etc and i'd be good to go.
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I went from a M8 to a Nikon D700 to a Leica M8.2. Why? Because I feel more comfortable with a rangefinder... it really comes down to that.
bwcolor
Veteran
I would wait for the fixed lens Fuji X100. For most of what you do this would, if as promised, fit the purpose. Sports and portraits would be the exceptions. Now, I am a 35mm lens person, so the X100 fits into much of what I do. Right now, I shoot all film/rangefinder in that I've yet to see a digital camera that interests me. I can use my 1DMkIII for sports.. if I can remember where I put the recharger. Good high ISO performance is a must and that eliminates the M8. That said, one camera will not provide everything that I want. The lack, or inclusion of interchangeable lenses doesn't change this fact.
peter_n
Veteran
I much prefer to use a rangefinder but I use a dSLR for color/family snaps etc. I won't buy a digital rangefinder until one is produced that's as reliable as my Nikon-based dSLR. I don't like PP work so I created and saved a small number of actions in Photoshop so I have one click PP. I was going to buy an M9 but it's just not worth the potential trouble, at least to me. I'd keep the D90...
It would be best to describe the type of photography that you like the most. If it is sports, the M8 is a poor replacement for a DSLR. If it is portraits, low-light, street photography, or just general "people pictures"- The M8 will do just fine.
Neare
Well-known
Buy a cheap film rangefinder first and see if you enjoy the shooting style before jumping the gun.
yoni
Member
DSLR and DRF are complimentary tools. I have been a DSLR shooter for a long time. Have used it for my fine art and travel work with success.
Recently I got lured by DRF on a lark. Bought a 2nd hand R-D1. Loved the experience for travel and street work and, well now picked up a M8.2 demo for a very reduced price. I would recommend shooting with a used DRF before deciding if its for you. Buy an inexpensive M8 or Epson R-D1, shoot a few thousand frames and ask yourself whether it opens up new ways of seeing or better ways to capture old ones. If it doesn't sell it and you'll likely recover much of the cost. As much as I love it, I can see many reasons that other may find it intolerable.
Recently I got lured by DRF on a lark. Bought a 2nd hand R-D1. Loved the experience for travel and street work and, well now picked up a M8.2 demo for a very reduced price. I would recommend shooting with a used DRF before deciding if its for you. Buy an inexpensive M8 or Epson R-D1, shoot a few thousand frames and ask yourself whether it opens up new ways of seeing or better ways to capture old ones. If it doesn't sell it and you'll likely recover much of the cost. As much as I love it, I can see many reasons that other may find it intolerable.
Chyn
Established
I started learning photography with a Pentax DSLR. Within a few years, I got a user Leica M2 as my interest in film grew. By then I realized that I liked documentary style photography taken of people in intimate settings. Like what some users have already said before me, it depends on what you are shooting. Extended time with the M2 allowed me to really grow into rangefinders and to appreciate and compensate for the system's quirks. That was fun.
Eventually I did get a great deal on a used M8. Initially, it felt like a bit of a let down with the crop factor, short battery life and the IR filters. It sure didn't feel like it was worth the price, especially if you had to buy a wider lens to obtain your original focal lengths. However, the convenience and image quality of digital Leica is hard to beat.
I think you ought to keep the DSLR for its versatility. I still have my DSLR around for the occasional macro or telephoto work.
Make sure to figure into your calculations the price of a good used M-mount lens.
Eventually I did get a great deal on a used M8. Initially, it felt like a bit of a let down with the crop factor, short battery life and the IR filters. It sure didn't feel like it was worth the price, especially if you had to buy a wider lens to obtain your original focal lengths. However, the convenience and image quality of digital Leica is hard to beat.
I think you ought to keep the DSLR for its versatility. I still have my DSLR around for the occasional macro or telephoto work.
Make sure to figure into your calculations the price of a good used M-mount lens.
honeyhype
Newbie
Wow thanks for all the input!
I actually have bought and use (then sold) yashica, canonet, petri and konica fixed lens RFs. I fell in love with them - quality, colour and the feel of the camera itself. So I know a Leica would just blow me away! And because I was shooting with film, I've learnt to take each shot carefully and think about composition and technical aspects more.
I do agree that if I wasn't limited on funds, I don't think I would sacrifice the dslr because of the possibility of being asked to do some volunteer photoshoots that require the versatility of a dslr. M8 would definitely be a HUGE luxury for me. The M6 is a little more affordable though and then work my way up to the Leica lenses and DRF.
I'm also curious about the Fuji X100, which is why I'm now more likely to let go of my GF1...
I actually have bought and use (then sold) yashica, canonet, petri and konica fixed lens RFs. I fell in love with them - quality, colour and the feel of the camera itself. So I know a Leica would just blow me away! And because I was shooting with film, I've learnt to take each shot carefully and think about composition and technical aspects more.
I do agree that if I wasn't limited on funds, I don't think I would sacrifice the dslr because of the possibility of being asked to do some volunteer photoshoots that require the versatility of a dslr. M8 would definitely be a HUGE luxury for me. The M6 is a little more affordable though and then work my way up to the Leica lenses and DRF.
I'm also curious about the Fuji X100, which is why I'm now more likely to let go of my GF1...
sper
Well-known
I love my 35mm rangefinders and prefer them overall, however I'd never limit myself, were I a "working" photographer to a rangefinder only. There will always be a time when you NEED an SLR to make a shot happen. Plus the work horses from the Big Two are just more reliable if you spend the money on the entry level pro stuff and up.
I use my Bessa's for art, and my 5D2 for work. It's an exceptional combo, I've found. By the way if you're considering a DSLR I'd stick with the D700.
My dream 'affordable' combo would be a D700 with AI, Zeiss, or Voigtlander lenses, and an M8 kit with Zeiss or Voigtlander lenses. You could take over then world with that.
I use my Bessa's for art, and my 5D2 for work. It's an exceptional combo, I've found. By the way if you're considering a DSLR I'd stick with the D700.
My dream 'affordable' combo would be a D700 with AI, Zeiss, or Voigtlander lenses, and an M8 kit with Zeiss or Voigtlander lenses. You could take over then world with that.
hellomikmik
Well-known
keep your nikon for digital quickly done photos and get a used zeiss ikon (or m6) plus some small lens to have it with you and play with film.
jarski
Veteran
one idea before making jump to M8, try out MF glass on D90 for few weeks, e.g. 28 or 35 ?
focusing is obviously different, but camera carrying and using experience, I doubt not that much. size wise D90 with nice old Nikkor isnt that much bigger than M8 would be + you dont have to worry about filters.
focusing is obviously different, but camera carrying and using experience, I doubt not that much. size wise D90 with nice old Nikkor isnt that much bigger than M8 would be + you dont have to worry about filters.
RichC
Well-known
Here's the tale of my changeover from a dSLR to a digital rangefinder: http://www.richcutler.co.uk/r-d1/
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
If you can get by with the somewhat limited abilities of the RF format, then why not?
I could never do it. As much as I hate lugging around a D700, I love the ability to use larger telephoto lenses. There's no lens in the RF system that can touch something like a 70-200/2.8 VR lens.
I could never do it. As much as I hate lugging around a D700, I love the ability to use larger telephoto lenses. There's no lens in the RF system that can touch something like a 70-200/2.8 VR lens.
healyzh
Well-known
Based on this, it sounds like you are where I was at the beginning of the year. Thankfully I wasn't at a stage where I had to sell gear to afford a new camera. Though I did sell my Canonet to afford more film.
I would recommend keeping the DSLR at a minimum, as for certain types of photography an SLR is best. In fact this last weekend I was shooting with my Nikon F3HP, rather than my Leica M6 TTL, as I felt it was a better choice (and it can share lenses with my D300 which I also took).
I bought the M6 last spring, and I absolutely love it. Its size and weight are hard to beat. I haven't been able to afford any Leica glass yet, but really like the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 lens I have (I also have a Soviet Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 that is surprisingly good). As much as I like it, I'm not sure I would recommend one to a student due to the cost of film and processing. I also wouldn't really recommend a M8 as a replacement for a GF1.
hteasley
Pupil
You're doing exactly what I did: when I finally found an M8 I could afford, I sold my D90 to fund it. Haven't regretted it at all: the D90 stayed home most of the time due to general size, so I was often without it, and when I did use it, I began turning all the auto features off, one by one, and my shots were getting better and better as a result (or at least I liked them better), and I was having a better time taking the shots, so the transition to the M8 was pretty smooth.
That said, starting to shoot rangefinders again, I found myself drawn into shooting film again, so getting the M6 and keeping the GF1 might be the best plan. It cuts down your initial investment in a Leica body to something more reasonable, letting you stretch to getting perhaps better glass for it than you otherwise might, and the shooting experience is similar enough. I love shooting my M6.
If you enjoy the M6, then contemplate moving to the M8 later on. There's certainly nothing wrong with a GF1 as a primary digital camera.
My wife could find and debug the errors in the FORTRAN compiler of a Supercomputer, write image processing code to automatically find and count cancer cells taken with a microscope camera, and design a machine to "read brain waves".
She uses an autofocus camera without problem, but I need to pre-focus the M8 for her. They are not for everyone. They are a joy for those that like to "fiddle" with a camera. I mean that in a good way.
She uses an autofocus camera without problem, but I need to pre-focus the M8 for her. They are not for everyone. They are a joy for those that like to "fiddle" with a camera. I mean that in a good way.