bayernfan
Well-known
Hoping there are a few M8 experts out there than can guide me in looking over and testing a used M8 (original 1/8000 model) I just ordered. I want to do a full shake-down on it and make sure it doesn't suffer from any of the known issues. If a guide already exists on the forum or the internet, please direct to me to it. Many thanks!
user237428934
User deletion pending
Have you tested a camera before? Do the same here.
The list of issues is rather short
- for colour you will need UV/IR cut filters
- on some M8 the display failed. If your display is working, don't think about it.
Have fun.
The list of issues is rather short
- for colour you will need UV/IR cut filters
- on some M8 the display failed. If your display is working, don't think about it.
Have fun.
bayernfan
Well-known
Tom,
One issue I'd like help in testing is noise, particularly the strong vertical banding seen from some of the M8 sensors. And really, just any other issues that users have run into that may not be plainly evident at first.
One issue I'd like help in testing is noise, particularly the strong vertical banding seen from some of the M8 sensors. And really, just any other issues that users have run into that may not be plainly evident at first.
jarski
Veteran
check also "coffee stain" issue in LCD. it does not prevent using the camera, but seller should have mentioned it.
user237428934
User deletion pending
AFAIK there are no differences between sensors regarding banding and noise. I think it's a limitation of the sensor and a matter of correct exposure. You can try to limit iso to 640 or 320 and then change exposure in post processing to reach higher ISO values. ISO 640 and then pushing one stop was better than using ISO 1250.
I think you can easily provoke banking when you take a photo of a darker scene with on lighter area. Expose to the light and then try to lift up the shadows in post processing.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Check all segments of the viewfinder LED function, mine are progressively dying and it is playing up with some SD cards.
If brand new and used in no other camera they are fine. If used elsewhere no formatting in camera or computer using any software, SanDisk and those fancy format programs either will bring them back. Perfectly usable in all other digital cameras I own, both of them!!
If you test with one of your cards it should show.
I have yet to see an M8 that does not band at high iso, M8 high is 640 and above, especially if provoked by underexposure in particular. Most shooters shoot at low iso and push in post or like me limit to 640 and are generous with the light ie blowing some specular to get shadows detail. If you are used to a more recent digital this will seem to be a real step back in time.
BTW if original (from new with the camera) or especially non Leica batteries are used it is almost certain they will need replacing or they will give sudden death from 2 bars and writing issues to the card factor those in the cost. No re-calibration seems to work effectively.
They are a great B/W camera BTW!!
If brand new and used in no other camera they are fine. If used elsewhere no formatting in camera or computer using any software, SanDisk and those fancy format programs either will bring them back. Perfectly usable in all other digital cameras I own, both of them!!
If you test with one of your cards it should show.
I have yet to see an M8 that does not band at high iso, M8 high is 640 and above, especially if provoked by underexposure in particular. Most shooters shoot at low iso and push in post or like me limit to 640 and are generous with the light ie blowing some specular to get shadows detail. If you are used to a more recent digital this will seem to be a real step back in time.
BTW if original (from new with the camera) or especially non Leica batteries are used it is almost certain they will need replacing or they will give sudden death from 2 bars and writing issues to the card factor those in the cost. No re-calibration seems to work effectively.
They are a great B/W camera BTW!!
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
user237428934
User deletion pending
Never had any of the typical problems with M8, M9, M240 reported by other people.
Maybe I should not play the consultant for typical issues with electronic devices because I never break this stuff. If I'd buy an item where 9 out of 10 are broken, I'll be the guy with the working item.
Lss
Well-known
I have an original battery and three generic ones. This has never happened.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
This is why in medical circles an N=1 trial (ie one patient) is not acceptable evidence to treat a population.
I am pleased your N=1 is a positive one !!
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Lucky you, a simple Google will greatly expand the number reporting it to many more than myself.
No one is saying, least of all me, that ALL M8 cameras have any of these problems just that some have and if buying it is as well to be aware of what to look for, which is what the OP asked for. I am sure he is as pleased as I am that you have not had that problem but that is regrettably no guarantee that the camera he is looking at will not.
bayernfan
Well-known
this is excellent user feedback, thank you very much. are you running the latest firmware in yours?
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
I am, and use Aperture priority mode but have no idea what the speed is because of the LED issue or manual and tweak if needed from the histogram. It's just not worth a) selling with the issues as they are b) spending to fix them. Unless Leica came back with a discount against new but, for me, even with a discount, I don't see value for money against other available hardware. Used market is different and I do love rangefinders and Leica but a premium is a premium.
Look at Phase One backs for medium format, or Hasselblad digital, what was £30,000 five to seven years ago is £3,000 today, that was a premium people paid for cutting edge commercial work. Leica has a premium for lovers of Leica that doesn't go away over time, relatively.
BTW I bought mine new in 2007 so fully know its history and that Leica once said it would upgrade the M8 to current spec. not that they would run out of spares within 5 years and that they wouldn't keep records to show which model serials had been fitted with faulty parts (rear screen). Once lost trust takes time to rebuild.
Would I buy a S/H one? Yes I would, they produce, under the right conditions, amazingly good results with amazing glass and are, especially if you own the glass already, stonkingly good value. Just avoid the dogs, good examples are out there, we already have posters in this thread with no issues who can't believe the problems others have seen, understandably, just find one.
user237428934
User deletion pending
But I think that the majority of M8 out there still operate flawless. It's a pity that you had so many problems but you are in the minority group.
Lss
Well-known
The point is that not all the cameras have issues which some people report. If it not useful to hear this, then it is easy to ignore.
RichC
Well-known
And check the shutter!
Mine and a friend's both developed "sticky" shutters, where the mechanism wouldn't recock after firing. (Well, mine would after I slapping it!) Both cameras needed overhauling by Leica.
As mentioned, if shooting colour, you will need IR-cut filters. The sensor is so IR sensitive that colours are changed, notably foilage and synthetic fabrics (a black suit or dress will become dark red - at least you can tell who are wearing cheap clothes!). Non-Leica IR-cut filters are cheaper and possibly easier to get.
Also as mentioned, original batteries that are worn out and have reduced capacity, or cheap generic replacements that have a reduced capacity from new (very common), can cause problems such as locking up the camera - usually fixed by inserting a fully charged battery. However, lack of charge can jam the shutter (see below). I strongly suggest buying a couple of brand new genuine batteries, as Li batteries lose significant capacity after a couple of years (yes, I know they're pricey!)
Last, a fault but one to ignore, as every M8 I've used does this! If you put the camera in multi-shot mode and keep your finger on the shutter button and take too many photos for the camera's buffer to cope with, it can lock up. This is presumably a software design bug: turn the camera off, and remove and replace the battery - i.e. you need to "reboot" the camera, like you would a faulty computer!
M8s are fine but a bit idiosyncratic!
Mine and a friend's both developed "sticky" shutters, where the mechanism wouldn't recock after firing. (Well, mine would after I slapping it!) Both cameras needed overhauling by Leica.
As mentioned, if shooting colour, you will need IR-cut filters. The sensor is so IR sensitive that colours are changed, notably foilage and synthetic fabrics (a black suit or dress will become dark red - at least you can tell who are wearing cheap clothes!). Non-Leica IR-cut filters are cheaper and possibly easier to get.
Also as mentioned, original batteries that are worn out and have reduced capacity, or cheap generic replacements that have a reduced capacity from new (very common), can cause problems such as locking up the camera - usually fixed by inserting a fully charged battery. However, lack of charge can jam the shutter (see below). I strongly suggest buying a couple of brand new genuine batteries, as Li batteries lose significant capacity after a couple of years (yes, I know they're pricey!)
Last, a fault but one to ignore, as every M8 I've used does this! If you put the camera in multi-shot mode and keep your finger on the shutter button and take too many photos for the camera's buffer to cope with, it can lock up. This is presumably a software design bug: turn the camera off, and remove and replace the battery - i.e. you need to "reboot" the camera, like you would a faulty computer!
M8s are fine but a bit idiosyncratic!
jarski
Veteran
seconded. I wasted couple ten euros for two China batteries that were total rubbish.
Lss
Well-known
How long do you have to do this?
After reading multiple complaints about the M8 buffer, I ran a test to verify just how the buffer performs. I timed one minute on continuous and the camera achieved 32 exposures. The first 12 exposures were quick (more or less the specified fps), after which the camera was dealing with the full buffer and shooting rather slowly. Obviously, this is not a great feat, but no locking problems. This is only a single test, so I will run a few more to check if I can make the camera to lock up. Just let me know the required time.
willie_901
Veteran
This is useful for any digital camera.
Take a well exposed photo at F 16 or higher. The subject could be a plain white or gray wall or blue sky (no or few clouds).
Then look for debris on the sensor. Some debris is common. The debris location(s) will be upside down and backwards. Usually a puff of air from a Gitto Air Blower will at remove the debris or at least move it around. Any debris that is not affected by this level of cleaning will require a wet cleaning.
I have a local camera shop tech do this. Some people send the camera off to Leica. Others buy a wet cleaning kit and do it themselves.
Take a well exposed photo at F 16 or higher. The subject could be a plain white or gray wall or blue sky (no or few clouds).
Then look for debris on the sensor. Some debris is common. The debris location(s) will be upside down and backwards. Usually a puff of air from a Gitto Air Blower will at remove the debris or at least move it around. Any debris that is not affected by this level of cleaning will require a wet cleaning.
I have a local camera shop tech do this. Some people send the camera off to Leica. Others buy a wet cleaning kit and do it themselves.
RichC
Well-known
That sounds fine! Mine and my friend's frequently locked up after 15 or so images! It might be because ours were early production cameras: perhaps this was fixed in later-manufactured cameras?
Never a big deal, as "rebooting" the camera always worked, and "machine gunning" a Leica sort of goes against raison d'etre!