M8 Future

[Ben Z]

I hope if the M8's successor doesn't need IR filters, that at least it will still have firmware correction for cyan drift, otherwise anyone who uses one alongside an M8 backup will have to keep removing and reinstalling filters 😱

As to filtering in the lens itself, it sounds like a good idea--for those willing to buy new lenses--but again, as long as the new body has firmware correction for cyan drift caused by front-lens filters and can tell the difference from the coding as to which type of lens is in use. And if those lenses were to be backward-compatible to the M8, new firmware would probably be needed for those lenses. Also, anyone who still uses film would have to deal in printing with any cyan drift from those lenses, and shooting slides would be out of the question.

 

[jaapv]

True Benson, and I'm sure that that the fact that these would be digital-only lenses is one of the factors stopping Leica building them.

 

[Tuolumne]

What a can of worms. For me the future of the M8 is the R-D1.

/T

 

[palker]

hi jaapv,

1. Automatic white balance. I still have issues with Tungsten, but in the end narrowed it down to Apple Aperture. Same photo in ACR or C1 s 200% better, so for my M8 I switched to ACR and import jpgs to Aperture - a shame and maybe a new rev or Aperture will fix it?

5. Noise - controversial. Most horrible noise shown is user error in exposure.
Do you mind expanding? I've sometimes seen comments about this before, but not seen anything which explains how to correctly use the camera for a high ISO shoot?

thanks.

 

[jaapv]

Three words: Incident light meter 🙂

 

[TJV]

You have to admit, the fact that there is so many people voicing opinions on the M8 and Leica in general only serves to prove that people care, or at least have an interest in Leica survinving. Good publicity is good publicity but healthy debate, ie when it's constuctive, if Leica is smart, and I think they are, can only help clarify for them what the public wants and expects in their products.

Would you rather have them concentrating on putting pathetic special editions of old cameras into the public sphere or investing efforts in addressing more modern needs? I think we all agree things are better for us and Leica than they were several years ago.

 

[emraphoto]

amen

amen

Three words: Incident light meter 🙂

double amen to that.

 

[jaapv]

Things are certainly better for Leica; but, I'm not sure they are that great for people who want to buy new Leicas to use as photographic tools. They are simply priced beyond the point that most RF fans can afford them. They are cult objects of desire now that, fortunately for Leica, a lot of folks with lots of money want to possess. Good for Leica.

I doubt that; relatively, the M8 is less expensive than the pre-war Leicas or even the M3;and I have never in my life seen so many Leica RF images as produced over the last year with the M8. The M8 is definitely a user camera, not a collectors item.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I doubt that; relatively, the M8 is less expensive than the pre-war Leicas or even the M3;and I have never in my life seen so many Leica RF images as produced over the last year with the M8. The M8 is definitely a user camera, not a collectors item.

On my calculations, the prices are roughly similar. Of course an awful lot depends on what price indices you use food, rent, housing, salaries.. But you're broadly right, of course, and I'd second the point about seeing a lot of M8 images too.

On the other hand, why introduce facts into a perfectly good argument? Can you really argue with people who appear to think that Rolls Royce ought to make Chevrolets? Or that Holland and Holland should diversify into Saturday night specials?

Cheers,

R.

 

[jaapv]

On the other hand, why introduce facts into a perfectly good argument?

Rotflmao! 😀😀 I must remember that one.

 

[gdi]

I doubt that; relatively, the M8 is less expensive than the pre-war Leicas or even the M3;and I have never in my life seen so many Leica RF images as produced over the last year with the M8. The M8 is definitely a user camera, not a collectors item.

How do you figure that?

I have read that a M3 in early 60's was $400 or less (possibly with a lens), was the M3 actually much more expensive than that? 400 1960 dollars are not worth 5500+ 2008 dollars, based on other retail goods.

What am I missing?

 

[rolo]

The M8 is definitely a user camera, not a collectors item.

Completely agree with you on that Jaap. Absolutely correct, it's not a long term investment by any stretch.

Is that a first for Leica ?

 

[jaapv]

Don't think so. Tried to sell a R3 lately?

 

[palker]

Jaap,
you mean carry and use an Incident light meter? and it will reduce grain .. I think I'm still in the dark 🙂 but can anyone help to explain how does that help?
cheers.

 

[rxmd]

Things are certainly better for Leica; but, I'm not sure they are that great for people who want to buy new Leicas to use as photographic tools. They are simply priced beyond the point that most RF fans can afford them. They are cult objects of desire now that, fortunately for Leica, a lot of folks with lots of money want to possess.

The M8 is definitely a user camera, not a collectors item.

Completely agree with you on that Jaap. Absolutely correct, it's not a long term investment by any stretch.

You know, guys, I think sitemistic meant neither the collecting nor the investment aspect. People who buy Bentleys and $25.000 tube amps don't buy them as collectors' items or as investments either. Yet they aren't that great for people who want a transportation tool or an audio playback tool in general.

I think the biggest market for Leica M8s as well as for Bentleys and tube amps is people who want them as items of distinction. They buy them because their possession and use is connected with the idea of a special kind of credibility in the right circles - the same way how young creative people buy Macs, or how computer geeks used Linux in the 1990s (now it's a bit less). RFF is such a circle where the M8 confers a special kind of label to its owner, so that peer pressure is created (how many RFF readers have bought M8s largely because of reading online forum entries?). So in the present "back to purity" wave that has given us the tube revival and the rangefinder revival and the bakelite revival, the M8 is attractive (a) to people who like to surround themselves with things that they associate with purity and classicness and authenticity - classic cars, vinyl records [or shellac 78s], 100% linen bedsheets etc. - and (b) to photographers who like to distinguish themselves from other photographers by the tools they use. Between groups (a) and (b) there's a large intersection of people who belong in both groups, of course.

This does not mean that the M8 is not a good camera or that it can not be put to good photographic value. A Bentley is a nice car, and a tube amp sounds nice. But a key function of all three items is that they confer distinction. For somebody who wants just a good camera, a M8 is probably not a great buy because with Leica Ms you pay for this distinction aspect and have been paying for it for the last ten years or so, and if this distinction aspect isn't worth anything for you then why pay for it?

Philipp

 

[rolo]

Don't think so. Tried to sell a R3 lately?

Not me, I have no knowledge of the R range at all. But, I did sell a 50 year old M3 last Sunday:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=160194612687&ssPageName=STRK:MESO:IT&ih=006

for three times the original cost. (I realise that the values have changes over time so it's not a direct comparison).

Jaap, what frustrates the hell out of me, and you might be missing this, is that I want dispose of my trusted Canon gear & Leica film bodies and use two M8's and the 4 top lenses I own for the photographic work I do. I have no qualms about M8 image quality within the limits of 35mm equivalents, but I need them to work every time I press the shutter and that seems to be asking too much of this variation. I'm informed and convinced that Leica will turn this around in the very near future.

So I'm waiting and hoping that Leica resolve the mechanical and electronic issues and allow their customers to continue to buy their products with confidence.

 

[SR1]

Philipp,

You're spot on of course. Some people will buy anything provided it has the right "name on it.

Obviously not working in the UK though. Leica put up the recommended price of the M8 in October 2007 to £3350 from £3000, even though dealers can't shift them. Still advertised by most at the old price.

Most dealers have low mileage used examples at £2500 which also seem reluctant to shift. I am presuming these are the ex demo models that they charge people £45 for the priviledge of testing for a couple of hours

Perhaps they need to make the name plate bigger?

 

[palker]

I find owning my M8 is like having a relationship with a childhood sweetheart, you want to like her, and sometimes it is quite enjoyable. Over time you begin to realise that amongst other things something wasn't right, and whist you tell yourself it doesn't matter, because after all you want to like her and you want it to be the case that it shouldn't matter .. the fact is that it does.

I think it is time for me to admit that it is time to move on. As I've aged I become more ruled by the head and less by the heart.

Cheers,

 

[RIVI1969]

As I just said in another forum, Leica could offer products for the people drooling for an M8 but who cannot invest more than 2 or 3 thousand dollars in a digital body. My case for example.

They offer average point and shoot cameras that are only rebadged Panasonic models and then the M8 with nothing in between. (I am not counting the Digilux 3 since it is a reflex camera) In an analogy with cars Leica offers the Audi A3 in the Digilux 3 and the A8 with the M8, but there is also a huge market for the A4, A5, and A6. I work in marketing and used to manage the Audi ad account and I know that they have to offer products with closer gaps between them, and I am just saying that maybe the future of the M8 cold be more safe if Leica launch products appealing to a more budget-oriented target who also appreaciate hand-made stuff but don't have too much money to spend in gear.

I know photographers in their 20's that couldn't care less about film cameras and don't know a thing about the Leica heritage, so in the near future how come Leica
is going to create brand loyalty with those people while Nikon, Canon etc are their current brands offering them high-end equipment from 600dlls? A D40x user maybe is dreaming with the D3, but he nows he can upgrade first to the D80, D300 with reasonable price gaps in between.

I guess a digital CM cameras with fix lengths and a real rangefinder could be a very appealing line of entry-level digital M cameras, just as it was with the film CM, a camera many could buy without selling the car but with a real Leica feel.

(Sorry for my English)

 

[jaapv]

Not me, I have no knowledge of the R range at all. But, I did sell a 50 year old M3 last Sunday:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=160194612687&ssPageName=STRK:MESO:IT&ih=006

for three times the original cost. (I realise that the values have changes over time so it's not a direct comparison).

Jaap, what frustrates the hell out of me, and you might be missing this, is that I want dispose of my trusted Canon gear & Leica film bodies and use two M8's and the 4 top lenses I own for the photographic work I do. I have no qualms about M8 image quality within the limits of 35mm equivalents, but I need them to work every time I press the shutter and that seems to be asking too much of this variation. I'm informed and convinced that Leica will turn this around in the very near future.

So I'm waiting and hoping that Leica resolve the mechanical and electronic issues and allow their customers to continue to buy their products with confidence.

No, what I meant to say that the days of inflated prices for anything Leica are over, many models, though not all, are priced according to sensible market mechanisms.
The reliability issue elicits varied responses. Many consider the camera utterly reliable, some have indeed problems. There is no telling.....