Tuolumne
Veteran
Do you think anyone really pays attention to the barnd of lens on their digital P&S? I seriously doubt it. But it does make money for Leica, which is a good thing for them. I wonder what the financial arrangement is between them and the camera maker? After all, they just designed it. They don't actually manufacture and assemmble it. Or do they?
/T
/T
DWeston
DWeston
What would happen if say CV or Epson came out with a new body using for example a sensor ala Nikon D300 or so? Priced at about the same as the D300. Only no AA filter like the M8..
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It would have vignetting problems
gdi
Veteran
jaapv said:
That would be no different from the existing RD-1 and it hasn't proven to be a major obstacle for that camera. Its only an issue for wide wides, IMO, and the software works very well to compensate - at least at the ~1.5 crop.
Of course another generation could provide those adjustments via in-camera software, much as the M8 does.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
gdi said:
It would be worse: higher Mp, smaller pixels, smaller microlenses with smaller acceptance angles makes for more vignetting, even if they stay on the APS-C format.
In camera correction presupposes some kind of lens coding - which undoubtedly Leica has patented for the M-mount.
gdi
Veteran
jaapv said:
Of course it doesn't - a menu option could accomplish this - like it could on the M8.
As for more severe vignetting - would the results suffer due to higher pixel count? I don't know, neither of us do.
gdi
Veteran
sitemistic said:
That's right, not optimal, but the software approach seems to be acceptable now with the M8 as well as the RD-1. I don't know what you mean with the focusing point - I was talking about a RF (maybe a Nikon sensor, but, at the lower end of the market?)
HAnkg
Well-known
The old film M had several things going for it versus SLR's that no longer apply.
The lack of a mirror meant less vibration so you could shoot a stop or 2 slower -image stabilazation and high ISO have minimized that advantage.
The close film to flange register meant better lens and resolving power at the film plane especially with wide angles - with digital it's just the opposite the close register is very digital unfriendly.
The simple mechanical camera's could provide a lifetime of service -digital's lifecycle is more like 5 years max. In 10 years the media, software and support hardware will exist only in museums.
The M was very quiet and unobtrusive - the new shutter while bringing many advantages is louder then some DSLR's
The combination of digital sensors and computer aided lens design and modern manufacturing has been a great leveler in terms of IQ. There is not that much difference between Canon's consumer DSLR's and the top of the line pro DSLR's in terms of IQ in print. All newer cameras including $30,000 medium format digital systems are now making in-camera processing a factor in lens design.
So it's down to the rangefinder which provides a very different way of seeing then DSLR's and combined with a compact M like body and handling still makes for a very appealing package for those that prefer that way of viewing the world and shooting in the era of DSLR's.
If Leica could have started from a blank piece of paper instead of with the digital unfriendly M spec they could have had a better and cheaper camera but it would have been marketing suicide. They needed the existing M base and M brand to make the concept fly. Given the constraints that put them under they did a very credible job. The proof being the revitalization of a company that has been on life support for decades.
The M8's biggest potential competitors are not DSLR's as it's really apples and oranges in terms of seeing -it's small sensor camera's like the Ricoh GRD with an optical viewfinder mounted. The M8 has turned out to be more like a digital Mamiya 7 then an Leica MP loaded with Tri-X leaving an opening for small sensor quiet, discreet reportage cameras.
So for the future -an M9 that is better then the M8 -maybe full frame -maybe addressing some other shortcomings of the M8. Perhaps a smaller, cheaper digital CL maybe in between the current M8 and the GRD. They are likely to have the digital RF space to them selves for the near term at least.
I'm very happy Leica has survived it provides a very different and welcome alternative to all the me to DSLR's. With all it's shortcomings and warts it is for my way of working the 'best' digital camera I have ever used.
The lack of a mirror meant less vibration so you could shoot a stop or 2 slower -image stabilazation and high ISO have minimized that advantage.
The close film to flange register meant better lens and resolving power at the film plane especially with wide angles - with digital it's just the opposite the close register is very digital unfriendly.
The simple mechanical camera's could provide a lifetime of service -digital's lifecycle is more like 5 years max. In 10 years the media, software and support hardware will exist only in museums.
The M was very quiet and unobtrusive - the new shutter while bringing many advantages is louder then some DSLR's
The combination of digital sensors and computer aided lens design and modern manufacturing has been a great leveler in terms of IQ. There is not that much difference between Canon's consumer DSLR's and the top of the line pro DSLR's in terms of IQ in print. All newer cameras including $30,000 medium format digital systems are now making in-camera processing a factor in lens design.
So it's down to the rangefinder which provides a very different way of seeing then DSLR's and combined with a compact M like body and handling still makes for a very appealing package for those that prefer that way of viewing the world and shooting in the era of DSLR's.
If Leica could have started from a blank piece of paper instead of with the digital unfriendly M spec they could have had a better and cheaper camera but it would have been marketing suicide. They needed the existing M base and M brand to make the concept fly. Given the constraints that put them under they did a very credible job. The proof being the revitalization of a company that has been on life support for decades.
The M8's biggest potential competitors are not DSLR's as it's really apples and oranges in terms of seeing -it's small sensor camera's like the Ricoh GRD with an optical viewfinder mounted. The M8 has turned out to be more like a digital Mamiya 7 then an Leica MP loaded with Tri-X leaving an opening for small sensor quiet, discreet reportage cameras.
So for the future -an M9 that is better then the M8 -maybe full frame -maybe addressing some other shortcomings of the M8. Perhaps a smaller, cheaper digital CL maybe in between the current M8 and the GRD. They are likely to have the digital RF space to them selves for the near term at least.
I'm very happy Leica has survived it provides a very different and welcome alternative to all the me to DSLR's. With all it's shortcomings and warts it is for my way of working the 'best' digital camera I have ever used.
Last edited:
ernesto
Well-known
Gabriel M.A. said:
Great Gabriel!
Could you ask your friend to buy a leica M9 for me, and (of course) come back to present time?
Thanks!
Ernesto
ernesto
Well-known
Humm, It is strage, but it seems that there was something in my original question that caused an explotion, and it is still exploding.
E
E
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Still - this is the second time this week a bit of M9 smoke has been wafting about in Leica circles - and not the least of Leica too - basically a 24x36 sensor and some sort of solution for IR. It would be a breakthrough in sensor technology - somebody should start reading through the websites of Kodak and other sensor suppliers.
HAnkg
Well-known
It was in an interview that Leica's president hinted at a full frame M9. However even if it's a possibility in the 'near future' - the near future in Leica time could be 2 years from now by the time M9's actually hit store shelves. By that time you could safely expect more then incremental change.
Right now they are probably focused on the R10. Once that comes out who knows what post-launch glitches they will have to deal with. That could divert resources for a while especially if the R10 sells big. With no digital RF competition they don't need to rush development. A 4 year product cycle would probably work for the digital M's.
Right now they are probably focused on the R10. Once that comes out who knows what post-launch glitches they will have to deal with. That could divert resources for a while especially if the R10 sells big. With no digital RF competition they don't need to rush development. A 4 year product cycle would probably work for the digital M's.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
M9?
Leica has`nt even gotten all the bad bugs and problems out of the M8 yet, why would they even think of building an M9?
With the far out (overpriced due to the German labor costs) price of the M8, I highly doubt that any "bargain" used M8`s will be on the market anytime soon, as some people talk about, don`t expect to see any of them below $4k anytime soon, maybe in 5 to 10 years you might see some of them at like $3k but that`s alot of cash for a used up digital camera of any kind
(and buying used digital is ALWAYS a BIG mistake and a great RISK)
with the gear always worn out and faulty, I don`t trust rebulit stuff either, the M8 is just an overpriced camera that`s put digital M system out of the reaches of average people`s pocketbooks, I`ll
stick to still using film with all my RF gear.......
The only thing that`s going to save digital rangefinder is a M digiback or a "new" camera that`s like the RD-1 was, with a M mount (and at less than $2k new) that would bring more FRESH NEW BLOOD into the creative rangefinder hobby, not cameras that cost double than the down payment on a new car......at $5k I`d rather put the downpayment on the car
Tom
Leica has`nt even gotten all the bad bugs and problems out of the M8 yet, why would they even think of building an M9?
With the far out (overpriced due to the German labor costs) price of the M8, I highly doubt that any "bargain" used M8`s will be on the market anytime soon, as some people talk about, don`t expect to see any of them below $4k anytime soon, maybe in 5 to 10 years you might see some of them at like $3k but that`s alot of cash for a used up digital camera of any kind
(and buying used digital is ALWAYS a BIG mistake and a great RISK)
with the gear always worn out and faulty, I don`t trust rebulit stuff either, the M8 is just an overpriced camera that`s put digital M system out of the reaches of average people`s pocketbooks, I`ll
stick to still using film with all my RF gear.......
The only thing that`s going to save digital rangefinder is a M digiback or a "new" camera that`s like the RD-1 was, with a M mount (and at less than $2k new) that would bring more FRESH NEW BLOOD into the creative rangefinder hobby, not cameras that cost double than the down payment on a new car......at $5k I`d rather put the downpayment on the car
Tom
Last edited:
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
The Apple Product Cycle
The Apple Product Cycle
For comparison, here's the Apple Product Cycle, slightly abbreviated:
* An obscure component manufacturer somewhere in the Pacific Rim announces a major order for some bleeding-edge piece of technology that could conceivably become part of an expensive, digital-lifestyle-enhancing nerd toy.
* Some hardware geek, the sort who actually reads press releases from obscure Pacific Rim component manufacturers, posts a link to the press release in a Mac Internet forum.
* The Mac rumor sites spring into action. Liberally quoting “reliable” sources inside Cupertino, irrelevant “experts,” and each other, they quickly transform baseless speculation into widely accepted fact.
* Eager Mac-heads fan the flames by flooding the Mac discussion forums with more groundless conjecture. Threads pop up around feature wish lists, favorite colors, and likely retail price points. In a matter of days, a third-hand, unsubstantiated rumor blossoms into a hand-held device that can do everything except find a girlfriend for a fat, smelly nerd.
* Apple issues it customary “we don’t comment on possible future products” statement in response to inquiries about the hypothetical new product. Mac fanatics are convinced that they're onto something.
* The haters enter the fray to introduce fear, uncertainty and doubt. How expensive will the product be? Will it support Windows file formats? Will it work with my ten-year-old Quadra 840AV running Mac OS 8.1?
* As Macworld or the Worldwide Developer’s Conference draws near, the chatter builds to a fever pitch. Rumor sites jockey for position, posting a new unverifiable, contradictory rumor every hour or so. eBay is flooded with six-month-old, slightly used gadgets as college students, underemployed web designers and independent musicians struggle to clear credit card space.
* On the morning of Steve Jobs’s keynote presentation, the online Apple store grinds to a halt as Mac-heads set their browsers to refresh every 15 seconds.
* Steve Jobs spends the first half-hour of his keynote crowing about how many iPods shipped during the previous six months and how many “native applications” have been developed for OS X. Attempting to appear as though it’s just an afterthought, he finally introduces the new Apple product. The product has sleek, clean lines, a diminutive form factor, and less than half of the useful features that everyone was expecting. Jobs announces that the product is available “immediately.”
* Five minutes later, the new product appears on the online Apple store. Orders have an estimated ship date that is four weeks away.
* The online Apple store takes 50,000 orders in the first 24 hours.
* Apple’s stock surges as Wall Street analysts proclaim the new device will be “Apple’s savior” and the key to turning around the decades-long decline in Apple’s share of the global PC market.
* The haters offer their assessment. The forums are ablaze with vitriolic rage. Haters pan the device for being less powerful than a Cray X1 while zealots counter that it is both smaller and lighter than a Buick Regal. The virtual slap-fight goes on and on, until obscure technical nuances like, “Will it play multiplexed Ogg Vorbis streams?” become matters of life and death.
* The editors of popular Mac magazines hail the new device as the next great step toward our utopian digital future. Wired News runs exclusive interviews with the Apple design team. Fortune publishes another glowing fluff piece about Steve Jobs, proclaiming him to be the great visionary behind all technological innovation. Newsweek declares the device the new “must have” item for any self-respecting urban technophile. All of this is written before anybody outside of Cupertino has held the new device in his or her hand.
* Business Week publishes an article stating that unless Apple immediately releases a Windows version of the new product its market share will continue to shrink and Apple will be out of business within six months. Mac zealots howl with fury and crash Business Week’s email server with their angry rebuttals.
* In the wee hours of the morning on the initial ship date, as the Mac heads lay snug in their beds or take MDMA and dance to bad music, Apple delays everybody’s ship date by four weeks.
* Rage reigns in the Mac forums. Lifelong Mac users who would never consider purchasing anything made by Microsoft or Dell, regardless of how shabbily Apple treats them, vent their anguish and frustration. Failing utterly to see the irony of the situation, they prattle on until their panties are twisted in knots.
* The rumor sites abound with half-baked theories blaming the shipping delay on everything from heat dissipation problems to SARS. The most obvious explanation, that Apple lied about the initial shipment dates, is ignored in favor of more elaborate and unlikely scenarios.
* Apple’s stock plummets as Wall Street analysts fret about the company’s supply chain problems. The same analysts who were raising their targets on Apple three weeks earlier appear on CNBC and predict that Apple could file for bankruptcy as soon as the week after next.
* A week before the revised ship date rolls around, small quantities of the new product begin to appear in Apple’s retail stores. Chaos ensues as crazed Mac-heads queue up hours before the stores open, hoping to get their hands on one of the prized gizmos. The bedwetting in Mac Internet forums reaches tidal proportions as people post empty threats to cancel their online orders. The devices begin to appear on eBay and get bid up to absurd premiums over MSRP.
* Pointless outrage slowly turns to pointless optimism. Driven insane by the lack of instant gratification, would-be customers profess their willingness to gun down the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny if it would hasten the arrival of the FedEx delivery person.
* Nerd porn threads appear in the Mac forums. Some lunatic with too much time and money on his hands disassembles the new device down to the bare, soldered components and posts pictures.
* The obligatory “I’m waiting for Rev. B” discussion appears in the Mac forums. People who’ve been burned by first-generation Apple products open up their old wounds and bleed their tales of woe. Unsympathetic technophiles fire back with, “if you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. pussy.” Everyone has this stupid argument for the twenty-third time.
* Apple issues a press release to announce that they have now taken orders for over 100,000 of the new devices and shipped at least eight or nine dozen. Backorders and waiting lists stretch into months.
* Movie stars, professional athletes and rappers begin accessorizing with Apple’s new gadget. Shaquille O’Neal appears on the cover of ESPN The Magazine using one. Mac fans unconditionally forgive him for Kazaam.
* Wall Street analysts appear on CNBC wearing big smiles and bright spring colors to announce that Apple's new device will drive Apple's sales to unprecedented levels and might be the key to turning around the decades-long decline in Apple’s share of the global PC market. Apple's share price surges. People who understand the root cause of the dot com bubble shake their heads in silent disgust.
* Trade publications and business magazines begin to refer to the market for Apple's new product as a "space."
* A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress.
* Taken completely by surprise at the success of Apple's new gadget, executives from Dell or Sony or Microsoft appear on CNBC and offer vague suggestions that they are beginning development of a new product to compete with Apple. In its next issue, PC Week magazine publishes an article declaring that Apple's dominance of the [insert gadget here] space is in jeopardy.
* Weeks before most users are able to hold Apple's new gadget in their hands, "What features would you like in the next version?" discussions take place on Mac mailing lists. Mac-heads cook up droves of far-fetched, often bizarre ideas. A cursory reading makes it readily apparent why Apple executives pay no attention to their fanatical customers.
* Apple releases the first software update for the new device through its Software Update control panel. Several hours later, it pulls the updater. A small number of people who applied the update experience crashes, data loss, headaches and ennui. The Apple support forums are filled with outraged posts. A day or so later, Apple releases a revised installer without comment, then quietly removes the angry posts from its support forums.
* Somebody starts a thread on a Mac chat board that asks whether anyone knows of a way to use the new device with some other nerd toy in a way that makes no sense whatsoever. Out of the blue, somebody writes a hack that facilitates the unholy combination and offers it as $39 shareware. Seven of the nine people who actually try to use the hack download it off of BitTorrent and use a pirate serial number. Advocates point to this as an example of how independent Mac software development is thriving.
* An obscure component manufacturer somewhere in the Pacific Rim announces a major order for some new bleeding-edge piece of technology that could conceivably become part of some expensive, digital-lifestyle-enhancing nerd toy. The fun begins again...
(Lifted from http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/. Mutatis mutandis it is quite funny how similar some things happen to go along.)
Philipp
The Apple Product Cycle
jaapv said:
For comparison, here's the Apple Product Cycle, slightly abbreviated:
* An obscure component manufacturer somewhere in the Pacific Rim announces a major order for some bleeding-edge piece of technology that could conceivably become part of an expensive, digital-lifestyle-enhancing nerd toy.
* Some hardware geek, the sort who actually reads press releases from obscure Pacific Rim component manufacturers, posts a link to the press release in a Mac Internet forum.
* The Mac rumor sites spring into action. Liberally quoting “reliable” sources inside Cupertino, irrelevant “experts,” and each other, they quickly transform baseless speculation into widely accepted fact.
* Eager Mac-heads fan the flames by flooding the Mac discussion forums with more groundless conjecture. Threads pop up around feature wish lists, favorite colors, and likely retail price points. In a matter of days, a third-hand, unsubstantiated rumor blossoms into a hand-held device that can do everything except find a girlfriend for a fat, smelly nerd.
* Apple issues it customary “we don’t comment on possible future products” statement in response to inquiries about the hypothetical new product. Mac fanatics are convinced that they're onto something.
* The haters enter the fray to introduce fear, uncertainty and doubt. How expensive will the product be? Will it support Windows file formats? Will it work with my ten-year-old Quadra 840AV running Mac OS 8.1?
* As Macworld or the Worldwide Developer’s Conference draws near, the chatter builds to a fever pitch. Rumor sites jockey for position, posting a new unverifiable, contradictory rumor every hour or so. eBay is flooded with six-month-old, slightly used gadgets as college students, underemployed web designers and independent musicians struggle to clear credit card space.
* On the morning of Steve Jobs’s keynote presentation, the online Apple store grinds to a halt as Mac-heads set their browsers to refresh every 15 seconds.
* Steve Jobs spends the first half-hour of his keynote crowing about how many iPods shipped during the previous six months and how many “native applications” have been developed for OS X. Attempting to appear as though it’s just an afterthought, he finally introduces the new Apple product. The product has sleek, clean lines, a diminutive form factor, and less than half of the useful features that everyone was expecting. Jobs announces that the product is available “immediately.”
* Five minutes later, the new product appears on the online Apple store. Orders have an estimated ship date that is four weeks away.
* The online Apple store takes 50,000 orders in the first 24 hours.
* Apple’s stock surges as Wall Street analysts proclaim the new device will be “Apple’s savior” and the key to turning around the decades-long decline in Apple’s share of the global PC market.
* The haters offer their assessment. The forums are ablaze with vitriolic rage. Haters pan the device for being less powerful than a Cray X1 while zealots counter that it is both smaller and lighter than a Buick Regal. The virtual slap-fight goes on and on, until obscure technical nuances like, “Will it play multiplexed Ogg Vorbis streams?” become matters of life and death.
* The editors of popular Mac magazines hail the new device as the next great step toward our utopian digital future. Wired News runs exclusive interviews with the Apple design team. Fortune publishes another glowing fluff piece about Steve Jobs, proclaiming him to be the great visionary behind all technological innovation. Newsweek declares the device the new “must have” item for any self-respecting urban technophile. All of this is written before anybody outside of Cupertino has held the new device in his or her hand.
* Business Week publishes an article stating that unless Apple immediately releases a Windows version of the new product its market share will continue to shrink and Apple will be out of business within six months. Mac zealots howl with fury and crash Business Week’s email server with their angry rebuttals.
* In the wee hours of the morning on the initial ship date, as the Mac heads lay snug in their beds or take MDMA and dance to bad music, Apple delays everybody’s ship date by four weeks.
* Rage reigns in the Mac forums. Lifelong Mac users who would never consider purchasing anything made by Microsoft or Dell, regardless of how shabbily Apple treats them, vent their anguish and frustration. Failing utterly to see the irony of the situation, they prattle on until their panties are twisted in knots.
* The rumor sites abound with half-baked theories blaming the shipping delay on everything from heat dissipation problems to SARS. The most obvious explanation, that Apple lied about the initial shipment dates, is ignored in favor of more elaborate and unlikely scenarios.
* Apple’s stock plummets as Wall Street analysts fret about the company’s supply chain problems. The same analysts who were raising their targets on Apple three weeks earlier appear on CNBC and predict that Apple could file for bankruptcy as soon as the week after next.
* A week before the revised ship date rolls around, small quantities of the new product begin to appear in Apple’s retail stores. Chaos ensues as crazed Mac-heads queue up hours before the stores open, hoping to get their hands on one of the prized gizmos. The bedwetting in Mac Internet forums reaches tidal proportions as people post empty threats to cancel their online orders. The devices begin to appear on eBay and get bid up to absurd premiums over MSRP.
* Pointless outrage slowly turns to pointless optimism. Driven insane by the lack of instant gratification, would-be customers profess their willingness to gun down the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny if it would hasten the arrival of the FedEx delivery person.
* Nerd porn threads appear in the Mac forums. Some lunatic with too much time and money on his hands disassembles the new device down to the bare, soldered components and posts pictures.
* The obligatory “I’m waiting for Rev. B” discussion appears in the Mac forums. People who’ve been burned by first-generation Apple products open up their old wounds and bleed their tales of woe. Unsympathetic technophiles fire back with, “if you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. pussy.” Everyone has this stupid argument for the twenty-third time.
* Apple issues a press release to announce that they have now taken orders for over 100,000 of the new devices and shipped at least eight or nine dozen. Backorders and waiting lists stretch into months.
* Movie stars, professional athletes and rappers begin accessorizing with Apple’s new gadget. Shaquille O’Neal appears on the cover of ESPN The Magazine using one. Mac fans unconditionally forgive him for Kazaam.
* Wall Street analysts appear on CNBC wearing big smiles and bright spring colors to announce that Apple's new device will drive Apple's sales to unprecedented levels and might be the key to turning around the decades-long decline in Apple’s share of the global PC market. Apple's share price surges. People who understand the root cause of the dot com bubble shake their heads in silent disgust.
* Trade publications and business magazines begin to refer to the market for Apple's new product as a "space."
* A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress.
* Taken completely by surprise at the success of Apple's new gadget, executives from Dell or Sony or Microsoft appear on CNBC and offer vague suggestions that they are beginning development of a new product to compete with Apple. In its next issue, PC Week magazine publishes an article declaring that Apple's dominance of the [insert gadget here] space is in jeopardy.
* Weeks before most users are able to hold Apple's new gadget in their hands, "What features would you like in the next version?" discussions take place on Mac mailing lists. Mac-heads cook up droves of far-fetched, often bizarre ideas. A cursory reading makes it readily apparent why Apple executives pay no attention to their fanatical customers.
* Apple releases the first software update for the new device through its Software Update control panel. Several hours later, it pulls the updater. A small number of people who applied the update experience crashes, data loss, headaches and ennui. The Apple support forums are filled with outraged posts. A day or so later, Apple releases a revised installer without comment, then quietly removes the angry posts from its support forums.
* Somebody starts a thread on a Mac chat board that asks whether anyone knows of a way to use the new device with some other nerd toy in a way that makes no sense whatsoever. Out of the blue, somebody writes a hack that facilitates the unholy combination and offers it as $39 shareware. Seven of the nine people who actually try to use the hack download it off of BitTorrent and use a pirate serial number. Advocates point to this as an example of how independent Mac software development is thriving.
* An obscure component manufacturer somewhere in the Pacific Rim announces a major order for some new bleeding-edge piece of technology that could conceivably become part of some expensive, digital-lifestyle-enhancing nerd toy. The fun begins again...
(Lifted from http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/. Mutatis mutandis it is quite funny how similar some things happen to go along.)
Philipp
Last edited:
PaulDalex
Dilettante artist
I think full frame will catch on soon. A Sony A900 will come out, Canon and Nikon have already their offerings. Possibly APS sensor will survive by a segmentation of the market. The bottom line might be that the M9 will be very expensive. We will be right back where we started from with film. I guess it is more likely that a full frame DSRL is in my future rather than an M9
Peter Klein
Well-known
rxmd: You forgot the part where Steve Jobs begins a section of his speech with "As I look back on the history of Western Civilization. . ." His own role in said civilization is described in the same breath as Charlemagne, Alexander the Great, Gutenberg, and Galileo, with Steve Wozniak affectionately characterized as a cross between Sancho Panza and Philo T. Farnsworth, and Bill Gates is pilloried as a latter-day Prince Metternich. Appleheads and Window Washers, surprisingly, agree on the latter, but the discussion quickly degenerates into a flamefest about the merits of the welfare state vs. laissez-faire. . .
(sorry, couldn't resist).
(sorry, couldn't resist).