weser
Member
Tim,
Any updates on production status?
Any updates on production status?
M8- Gettin' a Grip on it
- Thread starter TS ISAAC
- Start date
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weser
Member
just a little bump
TS ISAAC
Established
Harald Weser,
Ha......you read my mind.....I dont like page 2....I was trying to hold out with another post until I had significant information for all of you. So, since I got your 'bump' anyway, I will provide the latest update. Harald, your model 1 is nearly ready for production as well as the model 3.
Production: In three days I will examine a Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3 short production run. They will be painted on the following day. It is my estimation that at that point, I will be ready for production to begin, barring any quality issues! That means production would formally be started next week, July 16th! Whew.......finally.
Boxes: Turns out I will need to pack the Thumbs Up in something in order to facilitate shipping. Without a box it will fall on the floor of the airplane or truck while on its way to you and be lost. The box design is completed and a sample will be ready in 7 days with Thumbs Up artwork and nifty internals. Although a box seems a simpler thing to produce, it also has details which cannot be ignored. In this case one of those details is a die cut foam pad to hold the Thumbs Up securely.
Paypal: I have it all set up now.
Website: The website is up and being fine tuned. Colors and layout and photos and text all jiggled one more time to give the impression I know what I am doing. After that, we turn on the lights and unlock the door and we are open for business.
Ha......you read my mind.....I dont like page 2....I was trying to hold out with another post until I had significant information for all of you. So, since I got your 'bump' anyway, I will provide the latest update. Harald, your model 1 is nearly ready for production as well as the model 3.
Production: In three days I will examine a Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3 short production run. They will be painted on the following day. It is my estimation that at that point, I will be ready for production to begin, barring any quality issues! That means production would formally be started next week, July 16th! Whew.......finally.
Boxes: Turns out I will need to pack the Thumbs Up in something in order to facilitate shipping. Without a box it will fall on the floor of the airplane or truck while on its way to you and be lost. The box design is completed and a sample will be ready in 7 days with Thumbs Up artwork and nifty internals. Although a box seems a simpler thing to produce, it also has details which cannot be ignored. In this case one of those details is a die cut foam pad to hold the Thumbs Up securely.
Paypal: I have it all set up now.
Website: The website is up and being fine tuned. Colors and layout and photos and text all jiggled one more time to give the impression I know what I am doing. After that, we turn on the lights and unlock the door and we are open for business.
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etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Tim,
what is the URL of the store?
BTW, discovered the hard way that thumbup.com leads to an online sex store. 😱
what is the URL of the store?
BTW, discovered the hard way that thumbup.com leads to an online sex store. 😱
ChrisN
Striving
Tim - do you have a picture of the short TU (the one closest to the camera, above) mounted on film M? I'm interested in where my thumb will rest relative to the cocking lever. I'd imaging the shorter TU will put the thumb in the right spot for cocking the shutter, but need to see a picture!
Thanks.
Thanks.
quadtones
Established
Tim--
This is quite exciting, and I am looking forward to actually using one of these [Mod 1]. I have been closely following the progress. What is the web address?
Norm Snyder
This is quite exciting, and I am looking forward to actually using one of these [Mod 1]. I have been closely following the progress. What is the web address?
Norm Snyder
TS ISAAC
Established
Damas y Caballeros,
Here is an update on the Thumbs Up development. I have missed my projected production start date which came and went last week. Instead of production, I have been working with my machine shop to improve the tool paths and CNC sequences used to machine the part. Additionally, I made slight refinements to the design, to improve the fit and function and manufacture technique.
You will see the small rectangular opening has been removed. Instead there is a pocket on the back side that provides necessary clearances for the M8 hot shoe flash contacts. Further, the flash wire socket access port is now fully surrounded by the body of the Thumbs Up. This makes for a more uniform lower edge and fewer filleted edges on the back surface machined features.
Chris N, the photos are for you and others with an interest in the function of the Thumbs Up on older M models. In this case, my M6 was used as the test camera. The photos show the relation of the thumb to the winding lever in the retracted and extended positions. I find advancing the lever much the same as my previous method, as I usually placed my thumb on the tip of the lever grip. Others, who use the side of the lever grip, would feel the Thumbs Up pass below as it tends to sweep your thumb out to the end of the film advance lever during winding. Clearances seem more than sufficient in my opinion.
More importantly I now find a whole new feeling when holding my M6. The same is true on my M8. The security and repeatibility of the grasp on both models conveys a feeling of confidence and purpose. Of course it is my hope that all of you who have expressioned such support and overwhelming confidence in this product, feel the same way when yours is delivered.
When you remove the Thumbs Up from your camera, and grasp it with your original holding methods, you will wonder how you managed in the first place. How is that for a sales pitch ? ...... I had better keep my daytime job!
The Thumbs Up model 1 shown in the photos is a CNC sample, prior to finalizing the cutting tool paths of the CNC machine. The sample has not yet been polished or engraved and it has been 'abused' somewhat, as we tested various positions in the CNC machine to optimize the hold on the part during the machining process.
In China, most of us who use Flickr cannot see any of our photos since early in June. This makes viewing any of the photos I have posted here from Flickr quite impossible for me. (arrrggh) I will save my comments about this for another thread. I have begun using Ipernity, which is a Flickr copy photo site in France I believe, and seems to be doing a fine job. The restriction mentioned above is also influencing my access to a new webpage, from which I hoped to market the Thumbs Up, so stick with me as I find alternative solutions to these matters. Norm Synder and others who want to see my website....please hold on as I work through the technicals on this. My apologies.
Next week, I should be showing photos completed production parts and be ready for sales.
There should be 4 photos below.
Here is an update on the Thumbs Up development. I have missed my projected production start date which came and went last week. Instead of production, I have been working with my machine shop to improve the tool paths and CNC sequences used to machine the part. Additionally, I made slight refinements to the design, to improve the fit and function and manufacture technique.
You will see the small rectangular opening has been removed. Instead there is a pocket on the back side that provides necessary clearances for the M8 hot shoe flash contacts. Further, the flash wire socket access port is now fully surrounded by the body of the Thumbs Up. This makes for a more uniform lower edge and fewer filleted edges on the back surface machined features.
Chris N, the photos are for you and others with an interest in the function of the Thumbs Up on older M models. In this case, my M6 was used as the test camera. The photos show the relation of the thumb to the winding lever in the retracted and extended positions. I find advancing the lever much the same as my previous method, as I usually placed my thumb on the tip of the lever grip. Others, who use the side of the lever grip, would feel the Thumbs Up pass below as it tends to sweep your thumb out to the end of the film advance lever during winding. Clearances seem more than sufficient in my opinion.
More importantly I now find a whole new feeling when holding my M6. The same is true on my M8. The security and repeatibility of the grasp on both models conveys a feeling of confidence and purpose. Of course it is my hope that all of you who have expressioned such support and overwhelming confidence in this product, feel the same way when yours is delivered.
When you remove the Thumbs Up from your camera, and grasp it with your original holding methods, you will wonder how you managed in the first place. How is that for a sales pitch ? ...... I had better keep my daytime job!
The Thumbs Up model 1 shown in the photos is a CNC sample, prior to finalizing the cutting tool paths of the CNC machine. The sample has not yet been polished or engraved and it has been 'abused' somewhat, as we tested various positions in the CNC machine to optimize the hold on the part during the machining process.
In China, most of us who use Flickr cannot see any of our photos since early in June. This makes viewing any of the photos I have posted here from Flickr quite impossible for me. (arrrggh) I will save my comments about this for another thread. I have begun using Ipernity, which is a Flickr copy photo site in France I believe, and seems to be doing a fine job. The restriction mentioned above is also influencing my access to a new webpage, from which I hoped to market the Thumbs Up, so stick with me as I find alternative solutions to these matters. Norm Synder and others who want to see my website....please hold on as I work through the technicals on this. My apologies.
Next week, I should be showing photos completed production parts and be ready for sales.
There should be 4 photos below.
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Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Your pictures are showing up fine, Tim.
What's up with the Chinese blocking Flickr? Bizarre.
What's up with the Chinese blocking Flickr? Bizarre.
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
First Google, now flickr? I really do feel sorry for you in China (considering just this aspect of web censorship).
greggebhardt
Well-known
This thing looks like perfect. Someone put me on the list for one! I have programed a CNC and used it in the woodworking trade and love to see the limitless use of these devices!
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Stupid question: will a Thumbs Up interfere with a Leicatime case? I am thinking about getting Luigi's grip case and wondered if it would have to be modified for a Thumbs Up?
ttriolo
Newbie
Like others, I'm blown away by your amazing CAD modeling skills. I work with animators at NASA and I don't see this quality of detail in their work. Well done! Your design is impeccable, totally in keeping with the Leica look and feel of quality and craftsmanship. I'm definitely buying one .... oh, but first I have to purchase an M8.
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
ttriolo said:
I am in the same boat. Will probably buy a CV lens before I get the body so I have some thing to shoot with when I buy it. Just have to wait for some comission checks to come in.
jbtran
Member
Tim, I don't know if anyone has asked you this before, and it may be premature at this point, but have you thought about offering the Thumbs Up in a silver chrome finish in the future?
vicmortelmans
Well-known
It was mentioned a while ago in this thread, but probably not taken seriously? How would this work out on a Leica II/III (or FED/Zorki 1), which don't have a winding lever either.
Any chance of fitting a prototype on one of those and providing a picture? (or do you have these camera's CAD-modeled as well? 🙂).
Groeten,
Vic
Any chance of fitting a prototype on one of those and providing a picture? (or do you have these camera's CAD-modeled as well? 🙂).
Groeten,
Vic
vicmortelmans
Well-known
It was mentioned a while ago in this thread, but probably not taken seriously? How would this work out on a Leica II/III (or FED/Zorki 1), which don't have a winding lever either.
Any chance of fitting a prototype on one of those and providing a picture? (or do you have these camera's CAD-modeled as well? 🙂).
Groeten,
Vic
Any chance of fitting a prototype on one of those and providing a picture? (or do you have these camera's CAD-modeled as well? 🙂).
Groeten,
Vic
TS ISAAC
Established
Since my last post there has been progress, but also some slowing as I prepare for production. At this stage I am seeking the best of enamel finishes, and have been through a learning curve with my shop, as we work through the nuisances of painting brass.
Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3 have received a few design refinements and those modifications to the design are seen in photos at the end of this post. The small opening to provide clearance for the hot shoe of the M8 has been changed from a through hole to a pocket only which is visible from the back side. This gives the Thumbs Up a smoother appearance when in position on the Leica M8, in my opinion.
The photos depict the Thumbs Up in a temporary CNC setup as we experiment with various depths of engraving the lettering. 0.35 mm deep seems to serve the purpose best, providing sufficient depth so the black paint wont fill in the letters but rather, will leave some room for the white paint. Deeper would be good for painting but produce excessive wear on the delicate 0.25mm diameter end mill that forms the letters. The CNC machine shown is not the final production set up, but just a display photo to show the model 1 and model 3 together in all their shiny glory. There are two Thumbs Up before being cleaned up, and polished.
The second photo shows the polished parts. Although pretty, the parts will then be sprayed with glass beads using high pressure air, to produce a uniform dull surface texture. After the glass bead process, the Thumbs Up will be submerged in hydrochloric acid to further etch the surfaces. This etching provides additional roughness at a microscopic level. This etching provides additional surface area to which the paint can adhere. It is that painting stage we now seek to perfect, prior to formal production start up.
Vicmortelmans,
I do not own a Leica II or III and have not yet modeled a II or III in CAD. Send me yours and I will give it a go!
The Thumbs Up will attach to the III, but will not fit flush to the top cap of the camera. It may partially block access to the shutter release, when viewed from the rear. It is my design intention to see the Thumbs Up fit the M4 and M6 as well as the M8. You can see a prototype Model 1 on an M6 in a previous photo. Your point is well taken however, as it the Thumbs Up would serve the owner well, on a Leica II or III. I am eager to give that a try myself.
JBTran,
I have thought about alternative finishes, but first I will prefect the black painted version. The black finish currently looks quite good on silver and black cameras in my opinion. Perhaps others like you would appreciate a chromed finish. I have also considered a clear coated poslished brass version. Any interest in that? Fininshing in silver paint or with chrome plating are possible, but the number of possible versions to stock would quickly double. How many should I produce?
Thank you Ttriolo
for your remarkable compliment. My CAD models and prototypes are most definitely for low earth orbit use, but if you know someone that wants to take one higher, I feel certain it would work. M8's in space.....can I take mine?
The 3D camera models did take considerable time to produce, and they quickly became an essential starting point to ensure a proper fit of the Thumbs Up to the M8. Once the 3D models are complete, they can be used in many ways. I enjoy looking back at some of my earlier versions if the Thumbs Up, and to see the design evolve with the suggestions from here in RFF.
Etrigan63,
let me recommend you get a Thumbs Up first, before buying any other piece of photographic equipment, as a catalyst for your other camera plans. To answer your question, I imagine the Luigi case may require a special design change to include my Thumbs Up.
GregGebhardt,
I have a collection of my prototypes now, and each seems to offer greater ability to hold the camera, with little effort. Both long and short versions offer the same improvement on my M8. It seems more a personal choice which version to use. Many thanks for your comment.
Above, a Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3, soaked in coolant oil in the CNC machine. We were testing the engraving depths of the lettering here and settled on 0.35mm depth.
Above: an imperfect Thumbs Up model 3, used for polishing tests. Note the poorly formed curved end and some excess polishing there. Although not a good CNC part, it served well for polishing trials.
Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3 have received a few design refinements and those modifications to the design are seen in photos at the end of this post. The small opening to provide clearance for the hot shoe of the M8 has been changed from a through hole to a pocket only which is visible from the back side. This gives the Thumbs Up a smoother appearance when in position on the Leica M8, in my opinion.
The photos depict the Thumbs Up in a temporary CNC setup as we experiment with various depths of engraving the lettering. 0.35 mm deep seems to serve the purpose best, providing sufficient depth so the black paint wont fill in the letters but rather, will leave some room for the white paint. Deeper would be good for painting but produce excessive wear on the delicate 0.25mm diameter end mill that forms the letters. The CNC machine shown is not the final production set up, but just a display photo to show the model 1 and model 3 together in all their shiny glory. There are two Thumbs Up before being cleaned up, and polished.
The second photo shows the polished parts. Although pretty, the parts will then be sprayed with glass beads using high pressure air, to produce a uniform dull surface texture. After the glass bead process, the Thumbs Up will be submerged in hydrochloric acid to further etch the surfaces. This etching provides additional roughness at a microscopic level. This etching provides additional surface area to which the paint can adhere. It is that painting stage we now seek to perfect, prior to formal production start up.
Vicmortelmans,
I do not own a Leica II or III and have not yet modeled a II or III in CAD. Send me yours and I will give it a go!
The Thumbs Up will attach to the III, but will not fit flush to the top cap of the camera. It may partially block access to the shutter release, when viewed from the rear. It is my design intention to see the Thumbs Up fit the M4 and M6 as well as the M8. You can see a prototype Model 1 on an M6 in a previous photo. Your point is well taken however, as it the Thumbs Up would serve the owner well, on a Leica II or III. I am eager to give that a try myself.
JBTran,
I have thought about alternative finishes, but first I will prefect the black painted version. The black finish currently looks quite good on silver and black cameras in my opinion. Perhaps others like you would appreciate a chromed finish. I have also considered a clear coated poslished brass version. Any interest in that? Fininshing in silver paint or with chrome plating are possible, but the number of possible versions to stock would quickly double. How many should I produce?
Thank you Ttriolo
for your remarkable compliment. My CAD models and prototypes are most definitely for low earth orbit use, but if you know someone that wants to take one higher, I feel certain it would work. M8's in space.....can I take mine?
The 3D camera models did take considerable time to produce, and they quickly became an essential starting point to ensure a proper fit of the Thumbs Up to the M8. Once the 3D models are complete, they can be used in many ways. I enjoy looking back at some of my earlier versions if the Thumbs Up, and to see the design evolve with the suggestions from here in RFF.
Etrigan63,
let me recommend you get a Thumbs Up first, before buying any other piece of photographic equipment, as a catalyst for your other camera plans. To answer your question, I imagine the Luigi case may require a special design change to include my Thumbs Up.
GregGebhardt,
I have a collection of my prototypes now, and each seems to offer greater ability to hold the camera, with little effort. Both long and short versions offer the same improvement on my M8. It seems more a personal choice which version to use. Many thanks for your comment.
Above, a Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3, soaked in coolant oil in the CNC machine. We were testing the engraving depths of the lettering here and settled on 0.35mm depth.
Above: an imperfect Thumbs Up model 3, used for polishing tests. Note the poorly formed curved end and some excess polishing there. Although not a good CNC part, it served well for polishing trials.
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etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Tim,
I'm guessing that a Thumbs Up will not cost as much as a CV lens and you can safely assume you will have my order placed the moment you say "Go!". Plus you have yet to post the website URL for us to place orders. You may want to send one to Luigi so that he can adjust his case designs to accomodate your excellent idea (heck, he may send you a case - wishful thinking).
I'm guessing that a Thumbs Up will not cost as much as a CV lens and you can safely assume you will have my order placed the moment you say "Go!". Plus you have yet to post the website URL for us to place orders. You may want to send one to Luigi so that he can adjust his case designs to accomodate your excellent idea (heck, he may send you a case - wishful thinking).
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greggebhardt
Well-known
TS ISAAC said:Since my last post there has been progress, but also some slowing as I prepare for production. At this stage I am seeking the best of enamel finishes, and have been through a learning curve with my shop, as we work through the nuisances of painting brass.
Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3 have received a few design refinements and those modifications to the design are seen in photos at the end of this post. The small opening to provide clearance for the hot shoe of the M8 has been changed from a through hole to a pocket only which is visible from the back side. This gives the Thumbs Up a smoother appearance when in position on the Leica M8, in my opinion.
The photos depict the Thumbs Up in a temporary CNC setup as we experiment with various depths of engraving the lettering. 0.35 mm deep seems to serve the purpose best, providing sufficient depth so the black paint wont fill in the letters but rather, will leave some room for the white paint. Deeper would be good for painting but produce excessive wear on the delicate 0.25mm diameter end mill that forms the letters. The CNC machine shown is not the final production set up, but just a display photo to show the model 1 and model 3 together in all their shiny glory. There are two Thumbs Up before being cleaned up, and polished.
The second photo shows the polished parts. Although pretty, the parts will then be sprayed with glass beads using high pressure air, to produce a uniform dull surface texture. After the glass bead process, the Thumbs Up will be submerged in hydrochloric acid to further etch the surfaces. This etching provides additional roughness at a microscopic level. This etching provides additional surface area to which the paint can adhere. It is that painting stage we now seek to perfect, prior to formal production start up.
Vicmortelmans,
I do not own a Leica II or III and have not yet modeled a II or III in CAD. Send me yours and I will give it a go!
The Thumbs Up will attach to the III, but will not fit flush to the top cap of the camera. It may partially block access to the shutter release, when viewed from the rear. It is my design intention to see the Thumbs Up fit the M4 and M6 as well as the M8. You can see a prototype Model 1 on an M6 in a previous photo. Your point is well taken however, as it the Thumbs Up would serve the owner well, on a Leica II or III. I am eager to give that a try myself.
JBTran,
I have thought about alternative finishes, but first I will prefect the black painted version. The black finish currently looks quite good on silver and black cameras in my opinion. Perhaps others like you would appreciate a chromed finish. I have also considered a clear coated poslished brass version. Any interest in that? Fininshing in silver paint or with chrome plating are possible, but the number of possible versions to stock would quickly double. How many should I produce?
Thank you Ttriolo
for your remarkable compliment. My CAD models and prototypes are most definitely for low earth orbit use, but if you know someone that wants to take one higher, I feel certain it would work. M8's in space.....can I take mine?
The 3D camera models did take considerable time to produce, and they quickly became an essential starting point to ensure a proper fit of the Thumbs Up to the M8. Once the 3D models are complete, they can be used in many ways. I enjoy looking back at some of my earlier versions if the Thumbs Up, and to see the design evolve with the suggestions from here in RFF.
Etrigan63,
let me recommend you get a Thumbs Up first, before buying any other piece of photographic equipment, as a catalyst for your other camera plans. To answer your question, I imagine the Luigi case may require a special design change to include my Thumbs Up.
GregGebhardt,
I have a collection of my prototypes now, and each seems to offer greater ability to hold the camera, with little effort. Both long and short versions offer the same improvement on my M8. It seems more a personal choice which version to use. Many thanks for your comment.
Above, a Thumbs Up model 1 and model 3, soaked in coolant oil in the CNC machine. We were testing the engraving depths of the lettering here and settled on 0.35mm depth.
Above: an imperfect Thumbs Up model 3, used for polishing tests. Note the poorly formed curved end and some excess polishing there. Although not a good CNC part, it served well for polishing trials.
If you are done with the testing, send it to me! I will take imperfect! It looks like a winner! Want one for the M7 and M8!
Fin
Member
Further encouragment Tim,
You are going about this whole project in exactly the right way - i.e. No compromise on quality. Your CAD work has been flawless, you've listened to your potential customer base and it looks like you're well on the way to producing a genuine independant Leica accessory.
Keep on being fussy - you've generated some real excitement here - get the finish exactly right (we trust you!) and then the next step is some decent marketing. After that - developement (hot shoe? other ergonomic designs for other cameras?)
Good luck!
You are going about this whole project in exactly the right way - i.e. No compromise on quality. Your CAD work has been flawless, you've listened to your potential customer base and it looks like you're well on the way to producing a genuine independant Leica accessory.
Keep on being fussy - you've generated some real excitement here - get the finish exactly right (we trust you!) and then the next step is some decent marketing. After that - developement (hot shoe? other ergonomic designs for other cameras?)
Good luck!