Gid
Well-known
RML said:
Remy,
The dealer will be open in less than an hour - I'll be on the phone
R
RML
Guest
Gid said:The dealer will be open in less than an hour - I'll be on the phone
I hope things work out fine and swiftly. No matter what camera, if you need to send it back you'll be without it. And that's not the reason why you bought the camera, is it? You want to shoot it, not dream about when it'll be returned to you again.
Gid
Well-known
RML said:I hope things work out fine and swiftly. No matter what camera, if you need to send it back you'll be without it. And that's not the reason why you bought the camera, is it? You want to shoot it, not dream about when it'll be returned to you again.
Thanks. You're absolutely spot on.
spersky
-
Ted,
The fact that you always defend the M8 and cannot even joke about the issues show alot about your deep seated mental issues. You act as if you are defending a wounded animal from poachers. Ted, it is just a camera and you resort to personal attacks because somone has an opposite opinion.
The fact is your comments regarding the M8 are so biased that it might be broken in your hands right now and you still defend it. You have lost all objectivity, and in my opion are the biggest Leica shill I have ever seen. Likely even bigger than the CEO of leica. You do this forum a disservice by being such a leica "fanboy"; it is impossible to get true information from you.
This is the sailor ted generic quote," Yes, true the m8 has it problems and glitches, but it a joy to use and takes the best prictures in the whole world." I have an idea quit trying to defend your 5000 dollar pruchase which might die on you at any time. Although, that might have me scared and resorting to personal attacks as well.
The fact that you always defend the M8 and cannot even joke about the issues show alot about your deep seated mental issues. You act as if you are defending a wounded animal from poachers. Ted, it is just a camera and you resort to personal attacks because somone has an opposite opinion.
The fact is your comments regarding the M8 are so biased that it might be broken in your hands right now and you still defend it. You have lost all objectivity, and in my opion are the biggest Leica shill I have ever seen. Likely even bigger than the CEO of leica. You do this forum a disservice by being such a leica "fanboy"; it is impossible to get true information from you.
This is the sailor ted generic quote," Yes, true the m8 has it problems and glitches, but it a joy to use and takes the best prictures in the whole world." I have an idea quit trying to defend your 5000 dollar pruchase which might die on you at any time. Although, that might have me scared and resorting to personal attacks as well.
J. Borger
Well-known
spersky said:
And why should that be "biased"
..... because what Ted says is very true!
R
RML
Guest
J. Borger said:And why should that be "biased"
True as it may (or may not) be, it doesn't solve the problems many are experiencing. Plus it seems to trivialize the very real problems with many M8 bodies out there.
On the other hand, a singular focus on the problems isn't productive either. :bang:
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Ted: Turns out spersky is not a Canon photographer, rather a pscyhriatist.
Spersky: That's just humour!
Spersky: That's just humour!
Sailor Ted
Well-known
spersky said:
It's not that hard to research a posting history.
spersky said:
Fanboy or not statements like this are Troll bait from someone who has never used this camera and mocks the experience of those of us who do shoot with the M8 and like it. I openly acknowledge the shortcomings of this camera however I do not resort to ridiculing it nor do I ignore its considerable strong suites.
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rsl
Russell
Let's face it, the problem with the M8 isn't that it's having teething problems. As many people have pointed out, plenty of new digital cameras and other electronic devices have teething problems. The real problem is this: The M8 is touted as a new, top-of-the-line $5,000 professional camera, but so far its problems look more like the problems one would expect from a new $500 (lens comes with it) consumer camera. No, not everyone has a problem with it, and no one really knows what the statistics are regarding the number and severity of the problems, but at this point, is this the kind of camera you want to depend on when you're off somewhere shooting something you can't go back later and re-shoot? Even Ted, the ultimate keep-moving-and-don't-look-back Leicaphile, has admitted that when he's sailing he keeps his M8 tightly wrapped and doesn't take it out since it's not even sealed. What kind of "professional" camera is that?
Let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope Leica figures out how to salvage a really great idea. But in the meantime, let's not pretend that the current M8 is something it's not.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope Leica figures out how to salvage a really great idea. But in the meantime, let's not pretend that the current M8 is something it's not.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
rsl said:
Exactly. . . .
rsl
Russell
Sailor Ted said:
Knew that wouldn't take long...
spersky
-
Ted,
I was making a joke about the pencils. You where offended because you are so desperate to think that everyone is out to get you and your Leica M8, and tarnish its reputation. The only thing I am mocking is the idiotic denial by you to denouce all know problems about the M8 and discard them as trivial.
Currently, I am a Canon shooter, and thank god I am not stuck with an iffy $5,000 paper weight.
Don't you understand we have people coming here to look for advice about the M8. Many people do not live in a fantasy world where 5k is just a drop in the bucket for a camera with questionable reliability. However, when anyone tries to at least give them a moment of pause, you take it as a personal affront.
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Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Guys: you should all read what you're typing here. None here is making any sense, with all their contradictions. What's worse is that you don't even know you're contradicting what you're asserting. (Yes, you can lump me in the you)
The reality is this: say "Leica" and feathers will be ruffled.
All of this is petty. Insistence of both sides will never convince the other.
You hate it? You love it? You don't care? It's all been stated.
The reality is this: say "Leica" and feathers will be ruffled.
All of this is petty. Insistence of both sides will never convince the other.
You hate it? You love it? You don't care? It's all been stated.
spersky
-
Gabriel,
Point taken
Thanks
Point taken
Thanks
raid
Dad Photographer
Gabriel M.A. said:
Gabriel: We keep on advising each other to be more patient.
Maybe we are patient people but we view each other as less patient. :bang:
Cheers,
Raid
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
So true, Raid. Cosmic adjustments are bound to happen.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
One book sticks out in my mind when I read this thread:
"The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan Cooper. Even if you guys are not involved in the IT industry, it's still a funny book to check-out.
In one of the first chapters, Alan stated that when you "marry" anything that has been working for decades with computerized components, you will get a mutant that inherits all the unstability and unnecessary complexity of a computer (in fact, he uses a camera in one of his example cases).
Sadly, this also happens to a marvelous piece of engineering that Leica has been known to produce. I *am* impressed at some of the results from the M8 that I've seen. But I am not *more* impressed than when I saw excellent results from an M3, M6, M7, etc. So the only thing that M8 has over it's older brothers is the digital workflow, which is exactly the achilles heel due to its complexity. As it stands, *any* computerized equipment has to go through "stabilization" period which for some it'll take some time.
What Leica should have done for its very loyal and enthusiastic customers is to offer a beta-program in which they are allowed to purchase a limited number of M8 with a large discount. These beta-program users will then help Leica to flush out these instabilities in a controlled way. Once it stabilized, then they can crank out the production and demand full-price.
Here's the key: *not* a lot of companies in the world can pull this off nicely, but Leica could have, thanks to its high-brow status and a very loyal customer base.
Oh I'm sure Leica has done something similar to what I described, but as we all can attest to, it's not done long enough to let the M8 to stabilize.
So, I would be very dissapointed and quite mad too if the camera that I have such a high hopes for proves to be unreliable, *but* knowing what I mentioned above, I wouldn't have the high hope to begin with.
Gid: I really hope you can return the camera and if possible, write to Leica about how dissapointed you are with the turn of event. The only way Leica will know not to repeat the same mistake is for its loyal customers to let them know.
"The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan Cooper. Even if you guys are not involved in the IT industry, it's still a funny book to check-out.
In one of the first chapters, Alan stated that when you "marry" anything that has been working for decades with computerized components, you will get a mutant that inherits all the unstability and unnecessary complexity of a computer (in fact, he uses a camera in one of his example cases).
Sadly, this also happens to a marvelous piece of engineering that Leica has been known to produce. I *am* impressed at some of the results from the M8 that I've seen. But I am not *more* impressed than when I saw excellent results from an M3, M6, M7, etc. So the only thing that M8 has over it's older brothers is the digital workflow, which is exactly the achilles heel due to its complexity. As it stands, *any* computerized equipment has to go through "stabilization" period which for some it'll take some time.
What Leica should have done for its very loyal and enthusiastic customers is to offer a beta-program in which they are allowed to purchase a limited number of M8 with a large discount. These beta-program users will then help Leica to flush out these instabilities in a controlled way. Once it stabilized, then they can crank out the production and demand full-price.
Here's the key: *not* a lot of companies in the world can pull this off nicely, but Leica could have, thanks to its high-brow status and a very loyal customer base.
Oh I'm sure Leica has done something similar to what I described, but as we all can attest to, it's not done long enough to let the M8 to stabilize.
So, I would be very dissapointed and quite mad too if the camera that I have such a high hopes for proves to be unreliable, *but* knowing what I mentioned above, I wouldn't have the high hope to begin with.
Gid: I really hope you can return the camera and if possible, write to Leica about how dissapointed you are with the turn of event. The only way Leica will know not to repeat the same mistake is for its loyal customers to let them know.
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Gid
Well-known
Shadowfox,
Can't disagree with your post
Leica are aware of my disappointment - I delivered my unwell M8 to them personally (Leica UK). Assuming that they are true to their word, I should have a replacement today or tomorrow. If that happens, I will consider their service to have been first rate. I would have preferred it had my M8 survived, but probems do occur with any equipment and thats when customer service becomes imortant. So far, the service I have received from my dealer (Photo Design Studio) and Leica UK has been excellent.
Can't disagree with your post
Leica are aware of my disappointment - I delivered my unwell M8 to them personally (Leica UK). Assuming that they are true to their word, I should have a replacement today or tomorrow. If that happens, I will consider their service to have been first rate. I would have preferred it had my M8 survived, but probems do occur with any equipment and thats when customer service becomes imortant. So far, the service I have received from my dealer (Photo Design Studio) and Leica UK has been excellent.
Athena
Well-known
Same old, same old.
Someone else has a problem with a M8 and the usual happens. The M8 Leicans gather the wagons. And once again they convince themselves that this is a great camera that is unfortunately left in the hands of idiots who do not understand its purpose.
The M8 is camera bling - it's there for you to wear it around you neck and strut proud.
But remember, always carry a digiLux in your pocket/purse if you really want to take pictures. Because that is the true Leican way.
Maybe Leica should package a digiLux with each M8 as a "kit"?
Someone else has a problem with a M8 and the usual happens. The M8 Leicans gather the wagons. And once again they convince themselves that this is a great camera that is unfortunately left in the hands of idiots who do not understand its purpose.
The M8 is camera bling - it's there for you to wear it around you neck and strut proud.
But remember, always carry a digiLux in your pocket/purse if you really want to take pictures. Because that is the true Leican way.
Maybe Leica should package a digiLux with each M8 as a "kit"?
ZeissFan
Veteran
Postscript: I wonder how history will judge the M8.
-- Possibly as a good although not a great camera?
-- Perhaps better than has been credited?
-- As a flawed although durable camera?
I couldn't possibly assess this camera, as I haven't touched it. Maybe the next version will address some of the things that have arisen.
There sometimes is the perception -- an unreasonable one??? -- that all products should be perfect and should be able to please all of the consumers all of the time.
-- Possibly as a good although not a great camera?
-- Perhaps better than has been credited?
-- As a flawed although durable camera?
I couldn't possibly assess this camera, as I haven't touched it. Maybe the next version will address some of the things that have arisen.
There sometimes is the perception -- an unreasonable one??? -- that all products should be perfect and should be able to please all of the consumers all of the time.