M8 just gave up

[barjohn]

Same old, same old...

I'm not sure what your point is here. I think many of the posts have been people trying to share possible solutions. No one is accusing anyone of being an idiot just because they have encountered a problem. As to being bling, maybe among the professional photographic community but the general public doesn't have a clue who Leica is. I have had numerous people ask where I found the old fashioned camera and were surprised when I showed them it was a digital. They would then ask who is Leica, I never heard of them. In case you think it is becasue I live in some wilderness area in middle america, think again, this is in Los Angeles and Newport Beach where homes start at over $1 million for a shack and a cheap car is a BMW 325i. They all think it is "cute." They then proceed to make comments like you have to focus it and where is the zoom?

I had the R-D1 first and I liked it and I got the M8 and liked it even better which is all that really matters to me.

 

[Sailor Ted]

It is odd that as we see more and more people switch from whatever digital camera they were using to the M8 they report this camera does indeed exhibit superior IQ performance yet this goes largely ignored by some. It is telling that the detractors of the M8 for the most part have never used the camera. It is insulting that these same detractors also resort to ridicule and to trivializing the M8 as little more then a status symbol while always ignoring the cameras strong suites.

As we hear more and more from an ever growing pool of photographers who are making the switch, the M8 is an amazing tool for creating outstanding digital based images with a packadge that is smaller and more portable then the DSLR alternatives so popular with the M8’s detractors. This deserves far more conversation then the debate that seeks to destroy our only option in the DRF market. Namely the M8’s amazing imaging potential and it’s superior ergonomics for anyone not willing or able to tote a huge and heavy cannon (spelling intentional.)

Same old, same old indeed.

 

[barjohn]

Think about it rationally, 99% of the problems are problems that can be fixed in firmware (AWB, eratic crashes, cyan shift with filters, better or added menues, etc.) the only thing requiring any hardware fix (as far as I can tell at this point in time) is the IR filter requirement. For photographers into B&W and IR photography this may actually be a blessing. How many people buy a range finder to carry more than 4 lenses? How about more than 3 lenses? The whole point of RF photography is to be nimble, mobile and to not have to carry a ton of stuff so after two filters we are talking buying 1 or two more or basically a couple of hundred dollars. Once they are on you mostly forget about them.

My point is that the fixes will come and they are fortunately most likely software types of fixes such as newer profiles for C1 and firmware for the camera. If it turns out that there are additional hardware fixes required, hey, it has a two year warranty. All in all the picture is not as bleak as has been painted. Issues like battery life and others will be addressed. I have a Motorola Q cell phone and when it was released you couldn't get through a day without a recharge. Since their last firmware release it goes for 3+ days and responds faster and better than when I first bought it.

 

[Athena]

Hmmm...gathering the wagons again fellas.

See what I mean?

 

[Kim Coxon]

Gabriel,
Some very true words. My mother used to describe it as the kettle calling the pot black.

A quick review of this thread:
On the first 2 pages, ignoring Gid's posts there are about 10 replies with possible solutions and about the same number trying to turn the thread into the same old pro/anti M8 troll session with the emphasis on personalities. From, for 3 pages, there it drops even lower. There is about one post on Gid's problem and nearly 30 posts with people discussing each other. If anyone comes looking for an answer, they will never find it.

In the meantime, nobody has changed their minds, there are no converts and very little new has been said. Please - give it a rest and keep to the matter in hand.

Kim

Guys: you should all read what you're typing here. None here is making any sense, with all their contradictions. What's worse is that you don't even know you're contradicting what you're asserting. (Yes, you can lump me in the you)

The reality is this: say "Leica" and feathers will be ruffled.

All of this is petty. Insistence of both sides will never convince the other.

You hate it? You love it? You don't care? It's all been stated.

 

[HAnkg]

How about a strictly technical M8 forum where off topic remarks pro or con the camera are deleted by a moderator before they get posted. Any post by a user concerning a problem with the M8 where the user requires help and technical assistance attracts tons of remarks, trolls and wisecracks that have nothing to do with the thread topic. Aside from problems there is much to discuss in the way of raw processors, profiles, etc. How many times do we need to hear the same pros and cons followed by invective and insults. The same useless dialog played over and over and over hijacks every thread.

Just so no one will feel left out maybe we can have another forum where people could offer their personal opinions on the M8, film v. digital, life in general and other members motives and ethics and have fun trading insults all day.

 

[Gid]

Gabriel,
Some very true words. My mother used to describe it as the kettle calling the pot black.

A quick review of this thread:
On the first 2 pages, ignoring Gid's posts there are about 10 replies with possible solutions and about the same number trying to turn the thread into the same old pro/anti M8 troll session with the emphasis on personalities. From, for 3 pages, there it drops even lower. There is about one post on Gid's problem and nearly 30 posts with people discussing each other. If anyone comes looking for an answer, they will never find it.

In the meantime, nobody has changed their minds, there are no converts and very little new has been said. Please - give it a rest and keep to the matter in hand.

Kim

Well said Kim. Life hasn't been the same since they banned bear baiting and cock fighting.:bang:

 

[Ben Z]

It is telling that the detractors of the M8 for the most part have never used the camera.

I hope you're not including me in that generalization. First because while I may fit the definition if you define a detractor as anyone who doesn't put a 100% postive spin on it, in fact I recognize all the M8's excellent qualities and want one more than you can imagine. Second, and more importantly, because I have used the camera. It's good, the IQ is great. Not better than a 5D and not significantly better than a 20D. If it makes people happy to believe the M8 is far above those, and if it bolsters their egos to ridicule users of other cameras as not being capable of discerning IQ, that's their personality problem to deal with. The advantages the M8 has over those cameras are the same ones my M6 has over an EOS 3: physical size. That's extremely important to me as a travelling photographer, and why I am still not 100% decided against the M8.

Think about it rationally, 99% of the problems are problems that can be fixed in firmware (AWB, eratic crashes, cyan shift with filters, better or added menues, etc.)

Do you have any idea why the firmware that alleges to fix these issues is well past-due, and when (or if) it's likely to be released? One thing is certain, I would not buy an M8 before 1.10 is available and has been shown to fix all it proposes to fix, including the current spate of crashes, without adding another rasher of bugs of its own.

How many people buy a range finder to carry more than 4 lenses? How about more than 3 lenses? The whole point of RF photography is to be nimble, mobile and to not have to carry a ton of stuff so after two filters we are talking buying 1 or two more or basically a couple of hundred dollars. Once they are on you mostly forget about them.

I have about 13 lenses, and I normally carry 6 on a trip:15, 21, 35, 50, 90, 135 (with M8 probably add the 12mm and subtract the 135). Of those only the 35 and 135 share a common filter size. Since unlike a UV, the IR filter is essential to assuring no weird color shifts in incandescent or daylight (both strong containers of IR), I couldn't afford not to have a spare in each required size. That would make a minimum of eleven IR filters I'd need to own, so 9 I'd need to pay for. That's over $1000 in the sizes I need.

If it turns out that there are additional hardware fixes required, hey, it has a two year warranty.

And just how much of that two years would you consider reasonable for someone who's got $4800 sunk into a camera to expect it to be out of his hands getting fixed?

I would love to get an M8. I may still. IR filters aside, not before the new firmware is up and running. The recent falling-out between Leica and Jenoptik (developer of the M8 firmware) has me a little concerned and I need to see that the same thing isn't going to happen that has happened to the DMR (no promised firmware upgrade because of lack of Imacon's participation).

The camera is great, at least in concept, and it has tremendous IQ potential, that I'll grant. I want one. But I'm not about to pretend that it doesn't have serious issues that need addressing.

 

[kbg32]

It's funny, all issues asides, I wouldn't trade this camera for anything. All cameras have their pluses and minuses. There is no perfect camera. We all in our own way, find that we work around around every camera's flaws that we own, whether we realise it or not. We all want a camera that we don't have to think much about, becomes an extension of ourselves, and delivers image captures that we can work with. This camera, for me, as well as others, does just that.

 

[DaveSee]

Hmmm...gathering the wagons again fellas.

See what I mean?

And the horse you came in on, yes, I see

 

[Nick R.]

A little trite even for you, Athena.
If you're going to be malicious, at least be witty about it.
Regards,

Same old, same old.
Someone else has a problem with a M8 and the usual happens. The M8 Leicans gather the wagons. And once again they convince themselves that this is a great camera that is unfortunately left in the hands of idiots who do not understand... blah blah blah

 

[Kim Coxon]

OK,
Enough. Let's keep the discussion on cameras, photographic matters etc and not each other. Please bear in mind the "golden rules".

Kim

 

[barjohn]

Ben, I understood that there would be exceptions to my lens count and for those like you it may not be the right solution. There is no one camera that fits everyone. The new SLRs are getting smaller and lighter like the Oly 400 (not available here in the US) and if I remember back to my film days they were known for making a small SLR. Maybe modified to take Leica R lenses that may wind up being a better solution for some. I too would really like to see 1.1 and I hope Leica has some type of agreement that gives the either source code rights or actual ownership of the source code. If they didn't do that, they would have put their whole company at serious risk if a problem developed that required the software to be fixed and they had no way to make that happen.

I manage software development so I understand the problems in that area very well. Leica said it would be released in February but if I had to guess and knowing developers like I do it will be at the end becasue they will be working like crazy trying to lock down what fixes and features will be in the release and then testing-testing-testing.

 

[Ben Z]

I hope Leica has some type of agreement that gives the either source code rights or actual ownership of the source code. If they didn't do that, they would have put their whole company at serious risk if a problem developed that required the software to be fixed and they had no way to make that happen.

Well, unless I completely misunderstood, that's exactly what the situation is with the DMR. People have been waiting since forever for a firmware upgrade since Imacon and Leica parted ways.