M8 Low Temperature Shoot (-28C)

neelin

neelin

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-28C camera out with me for 60 minutes.

2 quick shots then the camera "froze" with the red LED lit (after being outside for 30 minutes).

Back at "the lab", one file name recorded to SD, but no data.

Warm it up, everything works like usual.

I've had no problems (other than battery life) at -20C so far.

Robert
 
etrigan63 said:
It might be the SD card, not the camera. Did you check the temp limits for the card?
Click to expand...
Good point. I was using a SanDisk Ultra II Plus (usb) 1g card. Couldn't find that temperature rated but didn't find any rated below -13C operating on a quick search. The stuck red LED would probably happen with a card failure. The M8 shows 0-40C operating range, pretty skimpy, puts in parked at home from November thru March up here.
 
heh....interesting to know the M8's operating temps. The summer here is about 42-44 degrees C and the winters here are near 0 C, plus all those places I go to way out in sichuan....minus with hard winds is common. Yikes!
 
Checked the operating temperature of other digicams? All in the 0-50 degrees Centigrade range...
 
jaapv said:
Checked the operating temperature of other digicams? All in the 0-50 degrees Centigrade range...
Click to expand...
Damn, I guess I'll have to go back to film & rubbing frozen blocks of D76 on the negatives in the 6 months of darkness. :D

Seems there was a Nikon ad recently talking about a guy digishooting on icebergs, so I guess even the factories know people actucally shoot outdoors in winter & not out of their car windows. (Centigrade. Exactly how many furlongs per fortnight is that? Your age is showing) ;)

Robert
 
To be honest

To be honest

neelin said:
-28C camera out with me for 60 minutes.

2 quick shots then the camera "froze" with the red LED lit (after being outside for 30 minutes).

Back at "the lab", one file name recorded to SD, but no data.

Warm it up, everything works like usual.

I've had no problems (other than battery life) at -20C so far.

Robert
Click to expand...

At -20C, I would be more worried about my brain freezing. It gets cold in Beijing (-10 to -15C at night) but not as nasty as that.
 
jaapv said:
Checked the operating temperature of other digicams? All in the 0-50 degrees Centigrade range...
Click to expand...
Not that surprising really. Electronic components typically come in 3 grades:
Standard:0-60C, Cheap, wider tolerances, fairly reliable (95% or more).
Commercial/Industrial:-35-66C, more expensive, more rugged, closer tolerances, very reliable (98% or more).
Hospital/Military: -55-125C, very rugged, very close tolerances, very reliable (99-100%), VERY expensive.

Almost any consumer electronic device is going to be built with standard grade components, because they're cheap and most people won't be in those kind of temperatures. Manufacturing equipment uses the next grade, not for the temp range (usually) but because the reliability is high, it's expensive to shut down and restart an entire production line. The highest grade is used in medical and military equipment because it is most reliable. If it fails, people die or planes fall out of the sky. They could build the M8 with these, but it would be even more expensive.

Sorry for straying OT, but I was a serious electronics experimenter before I became addicted to cameras!
 
projectbluebird said:
They could build the M8 with these, but it would be even more expensive.
Click to expand...
Not even sure about that. Military grade assortment is much smaller than commercial and industrial versions. Also, bleeding edge technology virtually never made in military version, it is usually lagging 1-2 generations behind.

Industrial components are more plentiful of course, but still they would need an industrial-grade version of CCD they use. Which probably (1) doesn't exist, and (2) will cost even more.
 
Actually non-battery dependant film cameras are the tool of choice for this type of work. The lowest I went with my trusty M3 was Aurea Borealis photographs in winter in Rovaniemi. Minus 45 centigrade... The only thing to watch is to advance the film very slowly, it is brittle. For prolonged use the camera must be cold-proofed.
 
I work for a company that makes computers for those kind of environments. Below -20°C, you really need heaters. We use solid state hard drives (compact flash), and we have to put heaters on them. I assume a SD card wouldn't work, either.
 
neelin said:
-28C camera out with me for 60 minutes.

2 quick shots then the camera "froze" with the red LED lit (after being outside for 30 minutes).

Back at "the lab", one file name recorded to SD, but no data.

Warm it up, everything works like usual.

I've had no problems (other than battery life) at -20C so far.
Click to expand...
Like etrigan63 said, it may be the card, not the camera. I was in Chicago last week, and it was about -13 degrees Farenheit, (which is about -25 Celsius) in the early morning, with a windchill factor of about -40 Farenheit (which is about -inhumane Celsius)

My M8 acted just fine, and certainly more than just a few shots (I'd say about a couple of dozen); I was pleasantly surprised. Longest I was out was about 30 minutes, though, not a whole straight hour at a time.
 
My d100 did ok down to about -5f when shooting the Aurora for a few hours. Batteries, of course had issues, but I kept spares inside my coat, and swapped them out.

Below that, I tend to drift back to all mechanical film bodies (that don't have old lubricants). The cold just doesn't play nicely with electronics.
 
Extreme III for cold

Extreme III for cold

I had a quick look around and Sandisk Extreme III cards are rated down to -13 F. For some of the temps below that I'm not sure there's a good solution right now. I wonder is the metal baseplate on the M8 transfers the cold to the card a bit quicker than the polycarbonate cases on most SLRs? Probably.

Hmmm... maybe Luigi can design a "cold weather case" to help insulate the body a bit? Food for thought :)

Kent
 
I've lived in some extreme climates. Once place had temperatures of -50 Celsius every winter, and got to +45 Celsius regularly in the summer. Fortunately a very dry climate. There were a number of problems in the winter with those temperatures, and one of the big ones was that things cracked when exposed to the temperature change of 70 degrees. Materials of different coefficients of expansion that were held rigidly next to each other had problems. This caused lens elements to crack at times, and plastics bonded to metels to crack and spall. Sometimes plastics would spall on their own due to differential shrinking due to the rapid cooling when taking things outside.

I used various film cameras in those conditions, but generally kept them medium warm (-20 degrees Celsius) in some container or bag, making sure there was no moisture present. Then just take the camera out quickly for the shot.

I think electronic cameras would require something similar, where you store the camera in between layers in your clothing, so that it stays within reasonable operating range yet is not in danger from condensation.

It's very important to put your camera into a plastic bag, or at the least wrap it up very thoroughly before bringing it back inside where it's warm, because otherwise the condensation can do very nasty things to your camera; both lenses and electronics.

Henning
 
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