thegman
Veteran
My first ever lens was the 35mm f/1.4 Nokton on a Zeiss Ikon, never had any trouble focusing it wide open. I would say that this problem is more likely on longer lenses, as the depth of field on a 35mm, even at 1.4, can cover up focusing errors.
paradoxbox
Well-known
There is an Epson R-D1 forum on this site meant specifically for Epson R-D1 users, it's quite popular and active all the time.
As for why I think the Epson is better than the M8 for most people:
While the M8 has better resolution and the sensor is arguably sharper and overall better, the M8 has absolutely horrible high ISO performance that is a little unpredictable. Some people manage to get good high ISO pictures out of it but most people don't - it suffers from severe banding that's impossible to remove with noise reduction software.
It also has a very severe IR color cast problem - though the R-D1 also suffers from this, it's not nearly as severe. For some people this is a benefit however - for example people shooting IR scenes with cut filters.
Lastly the price difference is still fairly large. An M8 is still around $2000 while an R-D1 can be had for half that if you shop carefully. This frees you up to buy lenses. With that extra $1000 you could buy a Color Skopar 35 2.5, and a 15,21,28 or several fast 50mm's of your choice.
As for why I think the Epson is better than the M8 for most people:
While the M8 has better resolution and the sensor is arguably sharper and overall better, the M8 has absolutely horrible high ISO performance that is a little unpredictable. Some people manage to get good high ISO pictures out of it but most people don't - it suffers from severe banding that's impossible to remove with noise reduction software.
It also has a very severe IR color cast problem - though the R-D1 also suffers from this, it's not nearly as severe. For some people this is a benefit however - for example people shooting IR scenes with cut filters.
Lastly the price difference is still fairly large. An M8 is still around $2000 while an R-D1 can be had for half that if you shop carefully. This frees you up to buy lenses. With that extra $1000 you could buy a Color Skopar 35 2.5, and a 15,21,28 or several fast 50mm's of your choice.
jazzwave
Well-known
You will get M6+CV 35/1.4 (used) or M8 with CV 28/1.9LTM lens (used) within your budget.
regards
Ronni
regards
Ronni
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I have both cameras and I'm not really seeing the OMD 'blow' the RD-1 away for IQ. Sure it has far better high ISO performance and more megapixels but to my eyes the old girl (Epson) is not too far behind considering the eight year gap in technology.
denizg7
Well-known
X100 is no rangefinder. Having said that the x100 is much much better than having to pick an M8. Judging from your post I don't think it's clinical for you to go with a rangefinder to produce images.
go with the x100 or get an x 1 pro with an M mount and get some classic exotic lenses.
twopointeight
Well-known
Save a little more for an M8.2.
froyd
Veteran
So, what did you end up doing?
Personally, I'd be tempted by the R-D1, but the the appeal of the 1:1 VF is lost on me ( same goes for the R3x and M3). If you use the 35mm focal length (in 35mm), you might equally put off by having to rely on an external VF, or using Jedi mind trick (put down the flame throwers, I'm just kidding!) to visualize the 54 degrees field of view of the 35.
If this is a concern, the M8 becomes the only digital choice within your budget that allows for an excellent manual focus experience and native use of M mount lenses. All this despite what I presume (i do not own either camera, so I am making an educated guess based on my camera design taste) to be an inferior ergonomic experience to the RD1.
Personally, I'd be tempted by the R-D1, but the the appeal of the 1:1 VF is lost on me ( same goes for the R3x and M3). If you use the 35mm focal length (in 35mm), you might equally put off by having to rely on an external VF, or using Jedi mind trick (put down the flame throwers, I'm just kidding!) to visualize the 54 degrees field of view of the 35.
If this is a concern, the M8 becomes the only digital choice within your budget that allows for an excellent manual focus experience and native use of M mount lenses. All this despite what I presume (i do not own either camera, so I am making an educated guess based on my camera design taste) to be an inferior ergonomic experience to the RD1.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I had an R-D1 and found it clunky.
If you want a digital RF camera, buy a Leica. Whichever you can afford. The M8 is far nicer in use then what people say. Budget $2000 for a clean one from a reputable dealer.
If you want a film RF, again I prefer a Leica. Mine are an M4-2 ($800) and a CL ($320). Both are excellent.
For the CL, get a Summicron-C 40/2, an M-Rokkor 40/2, or a Nokton 40/1.4. And an Elmar-C or M-Rokkor 90/4. That's all you need for a long while.
For a film M, a Nokton 50/1.5 or any number of other 50s will do a great job, as will a Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5.
If you want a digital RF camera, buy a Leica. Whichever you can afford. The M8 is far nicer in use then what people say. Budget $2000 for a clean one from a reputable dealer.
If you want a film RF, again I prefer a Leica. Mine are an M4-2 ($800) and a CL ($320). Both are excellent.
For the CL, get a Summicron-C 40/2, an M-Rokkor 40/2, or a Nokton 40/1.4. And an Elmar-C or M-Rokkor 90/4. That's all you need for a long while.
For a film M, a Nokton 50/1.5 or any number of other 50s will do a great job, as will a Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5.
palmerfralick
Established
R-d1
R-d1
There is a reason a big portion of the M8 forum is devoted to problems with the camera. I bought one from a reputable dealer and had several problems immediately. I sent it back and got a R-D1x and could not be happier, and Epson wil support it to at least 2016. Clunky? , the R-D1x handles much better than the M8. You don't need to buy a thumbie to be able to hold the camera properly. check out the R-D1 forum most of the content is about the good things the camera is capable of not the myriad of problems that plague the M8. Now M Monochrome is a different story.
R-d1
There is a reason a big portion of the M8 forum is devoted to problems with the camera. I bought one from a reputable dealer and had several problems immediately. I sent it back and got a R-D1x and could not be happier, and Epson wil support it to at least 2016. Clunky? , the R-D1x handles much better than the M8. You don't need to buy a thumbie to be able to hold the camera properly. check out the R-D1 forum most of the content is about the good things the camera is capable of not the myriad of problems that plague the M8. Now M Monochrome is a different story.
Griffin
Grampa's cameras user
I say go the film route with a good scanner. Developing is not that expensive plus you'll be able to play with all those wonderful film cameras out there just waiting to be picked up for peanuts by someone who will use them with love!
geotrupede
Member
M8, 1500 pounds or less. 1 y warranty. check lines in sensor. I had a shutter fail after I fall on the camera running on a marble floor, I am 80 Kg...
actually the shutter jammed, I put it together with fingers (touching blades) and sent back under passport. no shutter replacement but just some minor fix (I think it was a screw loosen up or so) and back ok since. 50k+ shutter exposures with fingerprints on shutter blades as a memory of the incident so it is not a fragile camera...
M8.2, 2000+ pounds and you get the nice sapphire glass, but you loose the flash at 1/250 and the 1/8000 speed. you need these if you plan to use flash with daylight and wide apertures (like 1.4 or even 1) in daylight with sun, and no filters. the framelines are adjusted, but I would not hold my hopes of this. with leica is a lot about guessing anyway. last bit is the shutter sound which s much improved and velvet like.
Epson, really cool design, great camera and very rewarding. but 1.5 and 6MP. I would find difficult to keep long term interest and not move to something else. but it may be quite affordable, like 700 pounds or less.
A FILM good camera is about 500 to 1000 pound. You can get the very best with exposure metering too. To be fair, I would go for this and play with it. Film is expensive to develop but a lot less than 1.5 or 2k. If you like it a lot, then sell all and move to digital. Value should hold and allow for swap.
Otherwise my vote is M8.
Good luck with your choice, I think either way you will need to plan the lens budget, because once you start it is difficult to stop
G
actually the shutter jammed, I put it together with fingers (touching blades) and sent back under passport. no shutter replacement but just some minor fix (I think it was a screw loosen up or so) and back ok since. 50k+ shutter exposures with fingerprints on shutter blades as a memory of the incident
so it is not a fragile camera...M8.2, 2000+ pounds and you get the nice sapphire glass, but you loose the flash at 1/250 and the 1/8000 speed. you need these if you plan to use flash with daylight and wide apertures (like 1.4 or even 1) in daylight with sun, and no filters. the framelines are adjusted, but I would not hold my hopes of this. with leica is a lot about guessing anyway. last bit is the shutter sound which s much improved and velvet like.
Epson, really cool design, great camera and very rewarding. but 1.5 and 6MP. I would find difficult to keep long term interest and not move to something else. but it may be quite affordable, like 700 pounds or less.
A FILM good camera is about 500 to 1000 pound. You can get the very best with exposure metering too. To be fair, I would go for this and play with it. Film is expensive to develop but a lot less than 1.5 or 2k. If you like it a lot, then sell all and move to digital. Value should hold and allow for swap.
Otherwise my vote is M8.
Good luck with your choice, I think either way you will need to plan the lens budget, because once you start it is difficult to stop
G
ramosa
B&W
it's always interesting to see a thread go stone cold for more than two months and then be revived ...
funkydog
Well-known
Time and changing events add a fresh perspective.
It's also ironic that the person who revived this "stone cold" thread jumped on another person's case for responding to an old thread.
It's also ironic that the person who revived this "stone cold" thread jumped on another person's case for responding to an old thread.
LeicaFan
Well-known
Forget about digital.
M6TTL, and call it a day.
M6TTL, and call it a day.
froyd
Veteran
In my defence, the other post you mention was much older and well intentioned members were offering advice that was no longer needed. In this cass I
just wanted to hear what happened in the end. So many advice request threads end up with the op disappearing and letting the thread die. I like to circle back and give updates.
Plus i'm mulling a similar dilemma, and i'm puzzled thtat so little of the conversation focuses on the issue of magnification. If somebody asked advi e chosing between an M6 .72 and a Bessa R3 wouldn't a big part of the conversation focus around favorite focal lenghts?