KM-25
Well-known
It's been awhile now since the first digital Leica M has hit the streets, a few of my friends at Magnum are using them among other pros I know. I have had real issues in having my $3,000 Leica glass's peripheral bokeh cropped as well, so this is one of the reasons I have held off, everything I use is full frame and I notice how positive this is in my daily work. But....
As some of you might now, I am shooting a large and long term film project. With the exception of an Xpan, I am doing this almost exclusively on Leica M cameras.
So when I am shooting this project, my Canon gear sits at home until I need to go shoot stock, commercial, deadline editorial, etc.
I am starting to consider the M8 in replacing one of my 5D's and a couple of Canon lenses so I can have a digital with me. But, I have some questions:
1. How is the battery life, what affects it, how is it in the cold?
2. How is the camera in the cold in general? I am not talking 30F, more like 0 and below 0.
3. When using the 28 Summicron ( 6 bit ), what kind of VF obstruction do you encounter?
4. Since IR cut filters are needed, does Leica supply at least one if not more and can I get a 43mm one for my LHSA 50 aspheric?
5. When using film M's and the M8 together, how much of a pain is it to keep swapping filters? This is key for me, because the film M will always come first.
6. How many raw files does one get from a 2 & 4GB card?
7. How does the M8 do in less than ideal weather under pro use, rain, snow, dust?
8. How good is the RF compared to say, my MP-3?
9. How is the long exposure ability of the M8 when in bulb mode, any noise even at low ISO?
10. Would you, a pro, trust this camera for pro use in the photojournalism realm?
Cheers,
KM
As some of you might now, I am shooting a large and long term film project. With the exception of an Xpan, I am doing this almost exclusively on Leica M cameras.
So when I am shooting this project, my Canon gear sits at home until I need to go shoot stock, commercial, deadline editorial, etc.
I am starting to consider the M8 in replacing one of my 5D's and a couple of Canon lenses so I can have a digital with me. But, I have some questions:
1. How is the battery life, what affects it, how is it in the cold?
2. How is the camera in the cold in general? I am not talking 30F, more like 0 and below 0.
3. When using the 28 Summicron ( 6 bit ), what kind of VF obstruction do you encounter?
4. Since IR cut filters are needed, does Leica supply at least one if not more and can I get a 43mm one for my LHSA 50 aspheric?
5. When using film M's and the M8 together, how much of a pain is it to keep swapping filters? This is key for me, because the film M will always come first.
6. How many raw files does one get from a 2 & 4GB card?
7. How does the M8 do in less than ideal weather under pro use, rain, snow, dust?
8. How good is the RF compared to say, my MP-3?
9. How is the long exposure ability of the M8 when in bulb mode, any noise even at low ISO?
10. Would you, a pro, trust this camera for pro use in the photojournalism realm?
Cheers,
KM
greggebhardt
Well-known
KM-25 said:
1. Battery life is good. I was surprised for it's size and have not had to use my backup battery yet.
2. I live in Florida, no cold weather here. If cold enough it might effect battery use but there is more than enough reserve for most.
3. With hood, 25% "partially" obstructed. No hood almost entire falls outside bright lines. This lesn is my absolute favorite and you will love it too!
4. Register your new M8 and you get two free filters of your choice. I picked the 39 and 46mm.
5. I seldom use my cut filters at all. Not really required under normal conditions. Many here use seldom or at all.
6. 187 on a new formatted 2gb card
7. I would not soak it. Use protection. Even my weather resistant D2XS had problems in the rain.
8. I can only compare to my M7, EXCELLENT!
9. Typical.
10. Not a pro hear but have been leaving my DSLR behind with no regrets.
The M8 is not for everyone. I sold my first two but the third is staying and I am quite happy!
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
I am lurker here, saving up my pennies to buy an M8, but I have read enough here to be able to answer some (if not all) of your questions. I am not a pro photographer per se; I own a technology website and I shoot photos for it and it makes money for me. It was enough to let me join the NPPA.
1. Batteries in general discharge much more quickly in the cold. This is plain old physics. The M8 is made of mostly metal so I assume it does not have much in the way of insulation for the battery (outside of the battery's plastic shell.
2. 0F should not be an issue for the M8. I live in Miami, FL so freezing for us is 50F.
3. Sean Reid of Reidreviews.com can best answer this.
4. Leica supplies 2 filters of the size you specify with the purchase of an M8.
5. These are screw-on filters. How much of a pain is it to you to unscrew, transfer, then screw them on normally?
6. M8 DNG files are about 10Mb in size. 200 for a 2GB card, 400 for a 4GB card (when supported - expected in firmware 1.2)
7. Other, more experienced folks can better answer this.
8. See answer #7.
9. See answer #7.
10. Many photojournalists used Leicas. They could take the beating. Leicas have been the tool of choice for many photographers who have won Pulitzer Prizes. Granted those were film Leicas. Give the M8 a chance. Take the time to learn it and it will serve you well.
1. Batteries in general discharge much more quickly in the cold. This is plain old physics. The M8 is made of mostly metal so I assume it does not have much in the way of insulation for the battery (outside of the battery's plastic shell.
2. 0F should not be an issue for the M8. I live in Miami, FL so freezing for us is 50F.
3. Sean Reid of Reidreviews.com can best answer this.
4. Leica supplies 2 filters of the size you specify with the purchase of an M8.
5. These are screw-on filters. How much of a pain is it to you to unscrew, transfer, then screw them on normally?
6. M8 DNG files are about 10Mb in size. 200 for a 2GB card, 400 for a 4GB card (when supported - expected in firmware 1.2)
7. Other, more experienced folks can better answer this.
8. See answer #7.
9. See answer #7.
10. Many photojournalists used Leicas. They could take the beating. Leicas have been the tool of choice for many photographers who have won Pulitzer Prizes. Granted those were film Leicas. Give the M8 a chance. Take the time to learn it and it will serve you well.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
>1. How is the battery life, what affects it, how is it in the cold?
Appears to be good for about 400 shots. How it is affected by cold should be in line with every other camera battery (same technology)
>3. When using the 28 Summicron ( 6 bit ), what kind of VF obstruction do you >encounter?
It's not horrible and depends on what hood you use.
>4. Since IR cut filters are needed, does Leica supply at least one if not more and >can I get a 43mm one for my LHSA 50 aspheric?
If I remember correctly Leica will supply you with two. I assume that also means a 43mm
>6. How many raw files does one get from a 2 & 4GB card?
M8 RAW files are 10MB each. 1GB = 1024MB
>7. How does the M8 do in less than ideal weather under pro use, rain, snow, >dust?
That's a very good question. Pro shooters have taken the M8 to Iran and Iraq and they had no problems. I asked a Leica rep if the camera was weather sealed and he said "no, but we sell a lot of units in the Asian market that can be extremely humid." Translation: The camera is not sealed.
This is one of my M8 pet peeves. I just think it's a little nuts to design a $5000 professional digital camera that isn't sealed against dust and moisture. The M8 is not like a mechanical M or Nikon F, that you simply set out to dry and keep shooting till you get home and can have it cleaned. Once the blue smoke gets out of the M8 it's curtains and you have a $5000 paperweight on your hands. Stupid move on Leica's part.
>8. How good is the RF compared to say, my MP-3?
The RF itself is a fairly standard M-type RF unit with .68 magnification, so you can see the framelines of the wideangle lenses. BUT the area of coverage that the framelines indicate is stunningly inaccurate. I've spoken to several people who are/were test shooters for Leica and apparently they gave Solms an earful.
Personally I've tried everything but a 28mm on the M8 and framing accuracy stinks. Supposedly the 28mm (x1.3=37mm) markings are by far the most accurate, but I haven't been able test it myself. Be prepared to crop.
According to one of the testers Leica may have a tweak in the works to solve this problem.
>10. Would you, a pro, trust this camera for pro use in the photojournalism realm?
Not sure. I haven't shot with one long enough, but there are pro shooters out there doing so. Obviously a back up camera of some sort is a must. Maybe a small Nikon D40 or Canon Dig. Rebel? A second M8 would be expensive. ;-)
There was a massive thread on LIGHTSTALKERS about the M8. Lots of pros, inlcuding some folks from Magnum chimed in.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/leica_m8___is_it_any_good
HL
Cheers,
Appears to be good for about 400 shots. How it is affected by cold should be in line with every other camera battery (same technology)
>3. When using the 28 Summicron ( 6 bit ), what kind of VF obstruction do you >encounter?
It's not horrible and depends on what hood you use.
>4. Since IR cut filters are needed, does Leica supply at least one if not more and >can I get a 43mm one for my LHSA 50 aspheric?
If I remember correctly Leica will supply you with two. I assume that also means a 43mm
>6. How many raw files does one get from a 2 & 4GB card?
M8 RAW files are 10MB each. 1GB = 1024MB
>7. How does the M8 do in less than ideal weather under pro use, rain, snow, >dust?
That's a very good question. Pro shooters have taken the M8 to Iran and Iraq and they had no problems. I asked a Leica rep if the camera was weather sealed and he said "no, but we sell a lot of units in the Asian market that can be extremely humid." Translation: The camera is not sealed.
This is one of my M8 pet peeves. I just think it's a little nuts to design a $5000 professional digital camera that isn't sealed against dust and moisture. The M8 is not like a mechanical M or Nikon F, that you simply set out to dry and keep shooting till you get home and can have it cleaned. Once the blue smoke gets out of the M8 it's curtains and you have a $5000 paperweight on your hands. Stupid move on Leica's part.
>8. How good is the RF compared to say, my MP-3?
The RF itself is a fairly standard M-type RF unit with .68 magnification, so you can see the framelines of the wideangle lenses. BUT the area of coverage that the framelines indicate is stunningly inaccurate. I've spoken to several people who are/were test shooters for Leica and apparently they gave Solms an earful.
Personally I've tried everything but a 28mm on the M8 and framing accuracy stinks. Supposedly the 28mm (x1.3=37mm) markings are by far the most accurate, but I haven't been able test it myself. Be prepared to crop.
According to one of the testers Leica may have a tweak in the works to solve this problem.
>10. Would you, a pro, trust this camera for pro use in the photojournalism realm?
Not sure. I haven't shot with one long enough, but there are pro shooters out there doing so. Obviously a back up camera of some sort is a must. Maybe a small Nikon D40 or Canon Dig. Rebel? A second M8 would be expensive. ;-)
There was a massive thread on LIGHTSTALKERS about the M8. Lots of pros, inlcuding some folks from Magnum chimed in.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/leica_m8___is_it_any_good
HL
Cheers,
HAnkg
Well-known
Although the 28 hood does not intrude much into the finder you could replace it with a smaller hood as the sensor is cropped. This is a great lens on the M8.KM-25 said:
Most of the Zeiss lenses take 43mm and Popflash carries 43mm IR/cut filters. I would not want to be changing filters in the field as its more of a pain then changing lenses. As others have said you get 2 filters free from Leica.
You will find the finder the same as the current film finders
The M8 is not weather sealed but then neither is the Canon 5D as far as I know, for real world experience in adverse environments try asking the question on www.lightstalkers.org there are a couple of pro photojournalists there with some experience with the M8 in the field.
As the camera is 10MP you might have a problem with some of your stock agencies. However I think you will find the image quality in print equal to any DSLR and I'm sure clients will be suitably impressed.
If you like your film M's I would expect that you will probably like the digital M as it has in large part ported the M RF experience to digital.
I would add one other point in agreement with the above poster. Leica in it's infinite wisdom decided to change the focus point for the frames choosing the closest point for each focal length. Having to learn different compensation for accurate framing at various distances for your film M's and your digital M could be a real pain as they will be different.
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Harry Lime
Practitioner
Damn it I'm going to miss Kodachrome...
If Kodak ever discontinues Tri-X, someone is going to get hurt.
;-)
If Kodak ever discontinues Tri-X, someone is going to get hurt.
;-)
cnguyen
Established
Tell us what your friends at Magnum telling you about the M8 ?
grduprey
Gene
I agree with most of the above. The 26/2.8 asph lens is terrific and the hood covers only the right lower corner, not a problem. As for temperature, mine has worked in -10F very well with no problems, even after soaking in this temp for 8 or more hours. Buy one, youll love it.
Gene
Gene
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Harry: Fly on over, our guest room is yours. We will march on the head office ensemble.Harry Lime said:
Harry Lime
Practitioner
grduprey said:
Typo: 2.8/28mm ASPH ;-)
Very nice lens. It's tiny, like the pre-ASPH v4 2/35 Summicron
HAnkg
Well-known
Harry Lime said:
The question was about the 28/2 summicron, which is bigger then the 28/2.8 but not to big. I especially like this lens because you get the sharpness of the ASPH without the harshness. Sort of the best of the old and new. For me a 28 and a 50 make a perfect M8 kit.
You can use the 35 Summilux hood on the 28 on the M8.
You might find this link useful on the subject of lens choice moving from film Leica to M8:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/19358-my-personal-lens-set-m8-finally.html
HAnkg
Well-known
On the subject of reliability.
If I was betting on which camera would survive a driving rain for hours on end I'd be putting my money on a weather sealed camera like the Canon 1D. How do cameras that are not weather sealed do? No one is doing a scientific consumer report style test resulting in the failure of a bunch of expensive camera equipment. So you are left with anecdotal stories on the internet. 'I had my M8 in Namibia, Amazonia, Iraq, tec., and it didn't miss a beat'. Of course you will also find experiences just as easily of the guy who is on his 3rd M8, never left his house and has not got a reliably working one yet.
So I would take normal precautions to protect the camera and would expect it to work in most situations. My own anecdotal experience? No problems at all with the M8 in 6 months. But I don't expose my cameras (or myself) to nasty conditions plus I'm often working with strobes and the power packs would blow up long before the cameras had a problem.
If I was betting on which camera would survive a driving rain for hours on end I'd be putting my money on a weather sealed camera like the Canon 1D. How do cameras that are not weather sealed do? No one is doing a scientific consumer report style test resulting in the failure of a bunch of expensive camera equipment. So you are left with anecdotal stories on the internet. 'I had my M8 in Namibia, Amazonia, Iraq, tec., and it didn't miss a beat'. Of course you will also find experiences just as easily of the guy who is on his 3rd M8, never left his house and has not got a reliably working one yet.
So I would take normal precautions to protect the camera and would expect it to work in most situations. My own anecdotal experience? No problems at all with the M8 in 6 months. But I don't expose my cameras (or myself) to nasty conditions plus I'm often working with strobes and the power packs would blow up long before the cameras had a problem.
KM-25
Well-known
Thanks to all who wrote in. The Lightstalkers thread was really good.
The framing issues with the 50 bother me a bit, but seems as though my 28 Summicron is going to be a joy to use on the other hand.
I am going to give this some more thought, even though B&H has them in stock, I might wait until a big commercial gig in Cabo is done next month since I will be selling one of my 5D's, one of my FM3A's and about 4 lenses to get this...
I'll keep an eye out...
By the way, Anne Holms images with the M8 are really the first ones to truly wow me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anne_holmes/
Thanks!
The framing issues with the 50 bother me a bit, but seems as though my 28 Summicron is going to be a joy to use on the other hand.
I am going to give this some more thought, even though B&H has them in stock, I might wait until a big commercial gig in Cabo is done next month since I will be selling one of my 5D's, one of my FM3A's and about 4 lenses to get this...
I'll keep an eye out...
By the way, Anne Holms images with the M8 are really the first ones to truly wow me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anne_holmes/
Thanks!
Harry Lime
Practitioner
HAnkg said:
Eric T
Well-known
I enjoy using my M8. However, the sensor gets dirty very easily. I clean prior to each day that I plan to do a fair amount of shooting but I still get dirty images. This can be very frustrating.
Eric
Eric
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I used my M8 in sub-zero for three weeks. I noticed a slight decline in battery life, but not more that I was used to with other cameras. Say, 300 shots instead of 400.
grduprey
Gene
Harry Lime said:
KM-25
Well-known
My M8 in black gets here Thursday. While I am excited, I am a bit concerned about some of the reports of back focus issues with the 50 1.4 asph.
How many have had that happen to them?
How many have had that happen to them?
TJV
Well-known
I had all the problems under the sun, unfortunately, including massive back focus with my lenses longer that 50mm before I gave kup. Hope you enjoy yours, which I'm sure you will. It's a pleasure to shoot with. Perhaps you're getting in at the right time.
W
Way
Guest
I had my M8 and three lenses (including the 50/1.4 asph) sent to Germany for focusing issues. 5 months later there is still a back focus with the 50 (but not as bad as before) and the 90 is still in NJ. 35/2 pre-asph focus has always been spot on.