parameters
Established
hello all
i've been an amateur dSLR user for many years. Been thinking of getting a digital rangefinder for many weeks now... Been lurking in several forums without any luck.
Has anyone here been through the dSLR to rangefinder transition? would be great if someone can recommend a reading list of any books on rangefinder...
I(very creatively)only used a 18mm-70mm zoom lens for all my landscape, architecture, portrait, etc etc shots... what's the equivalent len(s) for M8?
with a budget just under 5k (UK pound equal 10k USD), what sort of M8 kit will i get?
last but not least, what's the good/bad if i get it cheaper from either US or HK?
thanks in advance and i can't wait to get my hands on a M8
i've been an amateur dSLR user for many years. Been thinking of getting a digital rangefinder for many weeks now... Been lurking in several forums without any luck.
Has anyone here been through the dSLR to rangefinder transition? would be great if someone can recommend a reading list of any books on rangefinder...
I(very creatively)only used a 18mm-70mm zoom lens for all my landscape, architecture, portrait, etc etc shots... what's the equivalent len(s) for M8?
with a budget just under 5k (UK pound equal 10k USD), what sort of M8 kit will i get?
last but not least, what's the good/bad if i get it cheaper from either US or HK?
thanks in advance and i can't wait to get my hands on a M8
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erikhaugsby
killer of threads
An M8 will set you back a solid $5k, so a budget of just under 5k won't give you any money for lenses.
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Since US prices on the M8 are currently at $4995 and will shortly go up, you could look for a used M8 for $4K or so or get yourself a used Epson R-D1 for $1400-$2200 and pick up a few choice Voigtlander lenses (often referred to here as CV or VC) used or new since there are essentially no zoom lenses in RF photography -- other than the nearly $5K "WATE" (Wide-Angle-Tri-Elmar).
The R-D1 iss a great transition from dSLR to dRF and you will find the 6MP files to be really quite excellent.
Most definitely spend the few $$ to subscribe to www.reidreviews.com and read up.
Many current dRF shooters also have dSLR kits as one does not replace the other IMO.
As for lenses, the R-D1 has a 1.54x crop factor so lenses in the 18-70 range will behave in a way that you are used to with your Nikon. The Leica has a 1.33x crop factor so your Nikon's 18-70 is roughly equivalent to lenses in the 21-24/5-28-35-40-50 range but you might want to take a serious look at the CV 75mm Color-Heliar since it is a killer lens and very well priced (this is my current fave on my M8).
This forum is sponsored by Camera Quest (see the links on the left side of the page) and you should look through the Voigtlander lens choices there for prices, etc.
But still, Sean Reid's essay on Range Finder cameras is a great primer and well worth a look.
Best of luck! HTH
The R-D1 iss a great transition from dSLR to dRF and you will find the 6MP files to be really quite excellent.
Most definitely spend the few $$ to subscribe to www.reidreviews.com and read up.
Many current dRF shooters also have dSLR kits as one does not replace the other IMO.
As for lenses, the R-D1 has a 1.54x crop factor so lenses in the 18-70 range will behave in a way that you are used to with your Nikon. The Leica has a 1.33x crop factor so your Nikon's 18-70 is roughly equivalent to lenses in the 21-24/5-28-35-40-50 range but you might want to take a serious look at the CV 75mm Color-Heliar since it is a killer lens and very well priced (this is my current fave on my M8).
This forum is sponsored by Camera Quest (see the links on the left side of the page) and you should look through the Voigtlander lens choices there for prices, etc.
But still, Sean Reid's essay on Range Finder cameras is a great primer and well worth a look.
Best of luck! HTH
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parameters
Established
sorry i was thinking 5k UK pound.
post edited.
any suggestion plz!!!
post edited.
any suggestion plz!!!
Tuolumne
Veteran
The best online resource for rangefinders, aside from this forum, is www.cameraquest.com. That's the site that got me interested in rangefinder photography. Stephen Gandy, of cameraquest, is now also the proprietor of this site.
/T
/T
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
I can almost guarantee that if you are coming from happy experiences with a DSLR, you will never be happy with the M8.
I think I can be classified as a film rangefinder guy. I tried to like the M8 when it first came out. But I simply could not accept its limitations.
I stuck with film -- until recently I bought a DSLR and a couple of wide angle lenses since my circumstances simply did not allow me to luxury of film processing and I wanted to explore color photography.
To make a long story short, I recently borrowed an M8 to see if after my very enjoyable experiences with a larger, noiser, and 1.5x crop factor DSLR would do anything to get me past my objections to the M8...
The short answer: No.
For digital photography, nothing beats a quality DSLR. For sheer photographic gratification, nothing beats a film rangefinder.
For my photographic future, I see applications for both.
I think I can be classified as a film rangefinder guy. I tried to like the M8 when it first came out. But I simply could not accept its limitations.
I stuck with film -- until recently I bought a DSLR and a couple of wide angle lenses since my circumstances simply did not allow me to luxury of film processing and I wanted to explore color photography.
To make a long story short, I recently borrowed an M8 to see if after my very enjoyable experiences with a larger, noiser, and 1.5x crop factor DSLR would do anything to get me past my objections to the M8...
The short answer: No.
For digital photography, nothing beats a quality DSLR. For sheer photographic gratification, nothing beats a film rangefinder.
For my photographic future, I see applications for both.
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Ah, in the UK you can avail yourself of an "M8 Test Drive" from Robert White (perhaps others?) -- or so I've read (I'm in NYC) -- and give it a whirl for a week.
I still recommend the Voigtlander lenses as you can pull together a very substantial kit for not too much cash. But there again this is where a subscription to Reid Reviews comes in.
I'm a member of a guitar forum that gets together once a year for an annual bash. In 2006 I brought my D200 with a single lens a Nikkor 28mm 1.4 and this year I went with my M8 and all of my Voigtlander lenses. I've gotten higher compliments for my Leica shooting than for my Nikon shooting.
The results are here . . . (lots of pictures, but you can pick and choose).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/musicandlight/sets/72157594231340244/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/musicandlight/sets/72157601314570625/
HTH
I still recommend the Voigtlander lenses as you can pull together a very substantial kit for not too much cash. But there again this is where a subscription to Reid Reviews comes in.
I'm a member of a guitar forum that gets together once a year for an annual bash. In 2006 I brought my D200 with a single lens a Nikkor 28mm 1.4 and this year I went with my M8 and all of my Voigtlander lenses. I've gotten higher compliments for my Leica shooting than for my Nikon shooting.
The results are here . . . (lots of pictures, but you can pick and choose).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/musicandlight/sets/72157594231340244/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/musicandlight/sets/72157601314570625/
HTH
M
mad_boy
Guest
I can not comment on DSLR nor the M8 since I have neither.
I did switch almost completely however from Film SLR to M6, which is a similar transition.
I'm an old-fashioned guy and not representative though. I was using SLR's for 30 years, albeit a manual focus one. After years of yearning (and doubt) I got a M6 with a 50 summilux to start with.
Since then I hardly touch my SLR. Only if I really need tele (although I started to realise that 135mm is quite a long lens, and one hardly needs longer), if I go to real dirty places (beach) or where there is a chance of theft (if I need to leave it behind somewhere).
Otherwise I only use the M/s (Got 2 now and a shole range of lenses).
If however you are used (hooked) to auto focuss, then the transition will be large,
and for sure you will miss some nice moments because of that.
Mad_boy
I did switch almost completely however from Film SLR to M6, which is a similar transition.
I'm an old-fashioned guy and not representative though. I was using SLR's for 30 years, albeit a manual focus one. After years of yearning (and doubt) I got a M6 with a 50 summilux to start with.
Since then I hardly touch my SLR. Only if I really need tele (although I started to realise that 135mm is quite a long lens, and one hardly needs longer), if I go to real dirty places (beach) or where there is a chance of theft (if I need to leave it behind somewhere).
Otherwise I only use the M/s (Got 2 now and a shole range of lenses).
If however you are used (hooked) to auto focuss, then the transition will be large,
and for sure you will miss some nice moments because of that.
Mad_boy
Revelatio
Newbie
I started taking photos around 1 year ago. Started with a D200 and 18-200mm VR. Then moved onto the 85mm F1.4. Then I tried film shooting with my M4-P which got me hooked to the RF experience but I did not fancy the idea of developing my own film.
Around late April I purchased an M8 and have sold off most off most my Nikon gear. The difference so far is quite evident. Using the M8, I have more shots usable and in focus when compared to my D200 especially since I was shooting less and paying more attention to my composition. I am currently considering selling the rest of my Nikon gear and the D200 in order to purchase more M mount glass.
With your budget, I'd say you have USD 5k to play around. I'll get a 75mm F1.4 Summilux, probably the Voigtlander 15mm, Elmarit 28mm F2.8. You should still have $1000 left to get batteries, flash etc but with the summilux most likely you can skip the flash.
Around late April I purchased an M8 and have sold off most off most my Nikon gear. The difference so far is quite evident. Using the M8, I have more shots usable and in focus when compared to my D200 especially since I was shooting less and paying more attention to my composition. I am currently considering selling the rest of my Nikon gear and the D200 in order to purchase more M mount glass.
With your budget, I'd say you have USD 5k to play around. I'll get a 75mm F1.4 Summilux, probably the Voigtlander 15mm, Elmarit 28mm F2.8. You should still have $1000 left to get batteries, flash etc but with the summilux most likely you can skip the flash.
Richard Marks
Rexel
parameters said:
Hi
Most of the UK delaers are doing 'test drives'. Take one for a walk along with your D SLR and compare files later. Its going to be better than reading about other people taking pictures!
best wishes
Richard
HAnkg
Well-known
You would first want to make sure you will prefer RF to SLR. If you like the handling of the RF then you can get used Leica and or new Voightlander lenses. Leica has also introduced a new line of lenses that are lower priced (still 4x the price of VC). If your DSLR had a 1.5 crop factor you might start with a 28 and a 50. The Leica 50/1.4 preASPH is very nice and about $1200 USD used. If it was a full frame DSLR. Look at the VC ultrawides, the Leica 21/2.8 preASPH used or the Zeiss 21/4.5 and the VC 35's, lots of choices there. The VC 75 or the new Leica 75 Summarit would be the equivalent of 100mm on the long end. I'd just get 2 lenses use them for a while and go from there. You could easily get a kit for total $8000 USD.
usccharles
Well-known
if you don't mind film, can i recommend a film rangefinder first? they are pretty cheap for your budget, maybe a Hexar RF or even a new voigtlander RF body is only a few hundred US dollars. buy a good voigt lens like a nokton 40/1.4 and just play around with it a few time and see if you like the whole RF way of shooting before you go into spending mega bucks on an M8.
i went froma 20D to a 5D, then dabbled in film RF's for a while, bought a RD-1, and now the M8.
sold all my canon SLR gear and lenses and pretty much shoot exclusively with my M8 and film RF bodies. i just like the small size of RF's way better than clunky SLRs and if i feel like shooting SLR once in a while i whip out my film SLR once in a while but other than that i am fully RF.
but that is not for everyone from what i've been seeing at the local Leica shop where i live. alot of SLR guys/gals buy M8s because of all the hype these days and end up returning them real soon because they have a hard time adjusting to the different method of shooting. i feel bad for these guys because they would have done alot better to just have tried out a cheap used RF body before going all out on an M8 and not like it. there are hence alot of used brand new M8s there for sale.
RF is a great way to shoot but you have to like it and get used to it. there is alot more thinking involved in a way because you no longer have depth preview but its also alot of thinking removed becaue you only have your shutter speed, aperture, and focus to worry about.
my two cents
i went froma 20D to a 5D, then dabbled in film RF's for a while, bought a RD-1, and now the M8.
sold all my canon SLR gear and lenses and pretty much shoot exclusively with my M8 and film RF bodies. i just like the small size of RF's way better than clunky SLRs and if i feel like shooting SLR once in a while i whip out my film SLR once in a while but other than that i am fully RF.
but that is not for everyone from what i've been seeing at the local Leica shop where i live. alot of SLR guys/gals buy M8s because of all the hype these days and end up returning them real soon because they have a hard time adjusting to the different method of shooting. i feel bad for these guys because they would have done alot better to just have tried out a cheap used RF body before going all out on an M8 and not like it. there are hence alot of used brand new M8s there for sale.
RF is a great way to shoot but you have to like it and get used to it. there is alot more thinking involved in a way because you no longer have depth preview but its also alot of thinking removed becaue you only have your shutter speed, aperture, and focus to worry about.
my two cents
Ben Z
Veteran
AusDLK said:
I have all, SLR and DSLR, film M and M8. I'm finding that the exact same advantages and disadvantages of film Leica and SLR bodies transcend the switch to digital.
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eon
Established
If switching from a DSLR to a M8 gives you any problem it will not be because the M8 is digital, but because it is a rangefinder.
It is quite different to work with.
That focal length range you have been using corresponds to between 21mm - 75mm. Check through your file archive and se in EXIF what focal lengths of that zoom you have been using the most at start there.
Go and give the M8 a trial so you see if the working process is to your liking. It is mostly manual photography with rangefinders, even the digital ones.
/Erik
It is quite different to work with.
That focal length range you have been using corresponds to between 21mm - 75mm. Check through your file archive and se in EXIF what focal lengths of that zoom you have been using the most at start there.
Go and give the M8 a trial so you see if the working process is to your liking. It is mostly manual photography with rangefinders, even the digital ones.
/Erik
garethc
Established
Parameters, I'm guessing that you are based in the UK...whereabouts are you?
MartinL
MartinL
These are words of someone with limited experience with dSLR and M8. I have extensive dSLR experience and a couple of months with an M8, and I agree with the quoted view to this extent: The M8 will not replace dSLR (although you really might be happier if you had some fine SLR lenses.)AusDLK said:
Personally, I love the Leica-ness of my M8. Each time I pack up my SLR kit to do some work, I wish I could get what I need from the M8 because it is so pleasing and challenging to use. I use the M8 for travel, family, carry-around. My 4 CV lenses "cover" the wide/long territiory I like, and in total are under $1500 US. I think of these CV's as place-keepers: good and good-enough until I can learn the camera, RF, and my lens needs and wishes. Maybe I'll replace them with more expensive glass. Maybe not.
parameters
Established
thanks for all the great suggestions!!!
i've been mainly using the manual (shutter speed or aperture priority) functions for my dSLR and might actually like the idea of manually focus my picture. My main concern is the the lack of zoom lens, as normally i don't have time to crop or edit the images.
mostly of my subjects are urban / street / architecture shots, so i prefer a wide angle (21mm) and perhaps a 75mm for detail of roof or door handle etc. Also i take alot of interior shots too (churches). I believe M8 will excel in these subjects areas
here's a very snap shot of what i taken in last 3 months http://www.parameters.cc/2007/Field/index.htm
as suggested, will sure do the M8 test drive this weekend... thanks everyone!!!
i've been mainly using the manual (shutter speed or aperture priority) functions for my dSLR and might actually like the idea of manually focus my picture. My main concern is the the lack of zoom lens, as normally i don't have time to crop or edit the images.
mostly of my subjects are urban / street / architecture shots, so i prefer a wide angle (21mm) and perhaps a 75mm for detail of roof or door handle etc. Also i take alot of interior shots too (churches). I believe M8 will excel in these subjects areas
here's a very snap shot of what i taken in last 3 months http://www.parameters.cc/2007/Field/index.htm
as suggested, will sure do the M8 test drive this weekend... thanks everyone!!!
parameters
Established
garethc said:
yes gerethc, i'm based in (rip off) London UK. i hav friends /family frequently travel to US / Asia so i am thinking to buy it outside UK and use the extra for accessories...
parameters
Established
usccharles said:
why did you upgrade your RD-1 to M8? just simply better pict quality?
usccharles said:
any good website for 2nd hand M8? good suggestion, i'll try to get hands on with a RF body first...
usccharles said:
i love to learn all the above... IMO digital RF is best way to learn as i can see the result right after i take the shot.
Likaleica
M8 R6
My first camera, literally 40 years ago, was a used and broken Leica IIIc (screw mount rangefinder) with a 50mm lens. I migrated through film SLR, MF SLR, 4x5 view camera, Nikon DSLR, digital MF, and now, finally, back home to a Leica M8 with 50mm lens, which I have owned for only a week, but coveted ever since the rumors about it started. Any and all of these can produce a technically good photograph. For me, it is less about the picture and more about the experience, and how the camera and lens influence how I make the photograph. Way different between the Nikon DSLR and the view camera. As far as the M8 is concerned, it is more of a "pure" photographic experience, or perhaps better to say a "classic" experience with lens mounted aperture ring and focusing ring that I actually have to dial, and a shutter speed dial. Then there's the heritage, not just of the Leica marque, but of the legions of brilliant photographers who used this camera's forefathers to do their work. And then, there's that Leica glass. I am sure you can Photoshop a Nikon NEF file to have a Leica "look," but there's really nothing that compares to Leica glass, except possibly Zeiss glass, in terms of its "bokeh."