WoolenMammoth
Well-known
I have been trying to warm up to my M8 for about a year or so. I like the images I get from it, sometimes, but the experience of using this camera has been the paradigm of frustration and worthlessness for me. Now Im starting to think its just broken.
Do any of you guys have severe lag with the camera writing to the SD cards? Im a documentary shooter, and tend to shoot in blasts of 10 to 20 frames (yes I shoot film this way too...) and this will basically completely shut down my m8 while it writes away. If I shoot 15 frames in a minute, the camera wont fire again until it is done writing which can sometimes take minutes. This problem gets far worse as you get to over 50 frames on an SD card.
I have the 2.004 firmware, Ive tried all different SD cards, different size SD cards and reformat the cards every time I insert them back in the camera. As it is now, the camera is close to useless to use in a professional situation. The amount of shots I have missed while waiting for the camera to write is staggering, to the point that I could never ever begin to think about using this professionally until I get this sorted. So I use it to take snaps of friends at my house and it still frustrates me to the point of wanting to smash it every time I pick it up.
Anyone share this experience or can suggest anything I can do to attempt to rectify the situation? Im assuming this is just how poorly the camera works when you look at all the other design flaws of this thing, but Im holding out for some hope that I might be able to improve the performance to at least some low level of usability.
thanks!
Do any of you guys have severe lag with the camera writing to the SD cards? Im a documentary shooter, and tend to shoot in blasts of 10 to 20 frames (yes I shoot film this way too...) and this will basically completely shut down my m8 while it writes away. If I shoot 15 frames in a minute, the camera wont fire again until it is done writing which can sometimes take minutes. This problem gets far worse as you get to over 50 frames on an SD card.
I have the 2.004 firmware, Ive tried all different SD cards, different size SD cards and reformat the cards every time I insert them back in the camera. As it is now, the camera is close to useless to use in a professional situation. The amount of shots I have missed while waiting for the camera to write is staggering, to the point that I could never ever begin to think about using this professionally until I get this sorted. So I use it to take snaps of friends at my house and it still frustrates me to the point of wanting to smash it every time I pick it up.
Anyone share this experience or can suggest anything I can do to attempt to rectify the situation? Im assuming this is just how poorly the camera works when you look at all the other design flaws of this thing, but Im holding out for some hope that I might be able to improve the performance to at least some low level of usability.
thanks!
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
It sounds like you need a DSLR...continuous shooting is definitely not the M8's cup of tea...
dfxinc
Member
Unfortunatley, this is a way of life w/ M cameras...not sure why every other camera can write more efficiently though and Leica cant seem to figure it out.
dfxinc
Member
Yes the M9 is the same unfortunatley...I was hoping for an improvement Monday w/ new firmware...but it doesnt look likely.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Out of curiosity, since I have no idea with this camera, have you tried with different SD cards?
Apparently, the write speed differs from card to card, as well as from camera to camera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speeds (different vendors use write or read speeds to state the card's "speed").
Apparently, the write speed differs from card to card, as well as from camera to camera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speeds (different vendors use write or read speeds to state the card's "speed").
user237428934
User deletion pending
M8 is slow. I suppose that the TO will have problems the way he uses the camera even with the fastest card. I didn't have problems with that because I don't use it for fast shooting.
I'm surprised that the camera does not fire again until the buffer is completely flushed to the SD card. A rewrite of the firmware should fix this. Allocate fixed sized buffers for each image, and treat them as a circular queue.
I'm still treating the M8 like a film camera, and in many ways it behaves like on. Just think of it as loading with a 12 exposure roll of film that has to be changed when you hit the end of the buffer.
I'm still treating the M8 like a film camera, and in many ways it behaves like on. Just think of it as loading with a 12 exposure roll of film that has to be changed when you hit the end of the buffer.
alecgold
Established
you can shoot 15 pictures in a minute before lockup?
That's not bad. I use Sandisk 2Gb and 8Gb Extreme III and I can't get over 10.
Ow, I shoot in DNG, perhaps that makes a difference?
Btw, other than just shooting at my feet, I never had the buffer got stuck in real life. But I do a lot of street and snap shots.
But if you keep shooting the M8 at around 1 picture every 10 seconds, you can go on for a long, long time.
How did you do that with a M6 then? You can't be so trigger happy that you can shoot a picture every 3 seconds orso?
So if the M9 update on monday brings faster clearing of the buffer/faster writing to the SD/writing in a partial empty buffer there is a slim chance that M8 owners get lucky as well... but I'm not waiting for it.
That's not bad. I use Sandisk 2Gb and 8Gb Extreme III and I can't get over 10.
Ow, I shoot in DNG, perhaps that makes a difference?
Btw, other than just shooting at my feet, I never had the buffer got stuck in real life. But I do a lot of street and snap shots.
But if you keep shooting the M8 at around 1 picture every 10 seconds, you can go on for a long, long time.
How did you do that with a M6 then? You can't be so trigger happy that you can shoot a picture every 3 seconds orso?
So if the M9 update on monday brings faster clearing of the buffer/faster writing to the SD/writing in a partial empty buffer there is a slim chance that M8 owners get lucky as well... but I'm not waiting for it.
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
I havent counted it, but its between 10 and 15 frames. Under "normal" circumstances I guess I can live with it, but documentary shooting people doing things, its unacceptable. Not so much because I need to shoot 30 frames a minute, but once the buffer is full, its gotta download it, and that can take minutes and minutes. So, 15 frames in a minute can sometimes mean four minutes until the next exposure once the buffer is full and that is just beyond unacceptable. In four minutes I can load, shoot 40 frames and reload an M4. I grew up shooting rock and roll, you learn to do things fast when you have to cover an entire performance in eight minutes.
Do you guys have any reccomendations on the fastest card youve found? I seem to get about the same performance out of everything Ive tried regardless of brand or size.
I had not thought about reinstalling the firmware, perhaps I'll try it.
How do I allocate the buffer size per image? If I could mathematically figure out the cycle, it would make coming up with a game plan for use a little easier. Unless I shoot a few frames, I fill the buffer every time I pick the camera up. Using the M8 is a real cool experience. The engineers at leica should be ashamed for releasing a prototype to us in the first place, but the idea that this is just what it is really makes the idea that anyone could even consider using one of these professionally laughable. Such a shame ultimately, I really want to use this camera, sigh.
Do you guys have any reccomendations on the fastest card youve found? I seem to get about the same performance out of everything Ive tried regardless of brand or size.
I had not thought about reinstalling the firmware, perhaps I'll try it.
How do I allocate the buffer size per image? If I could mathematically figure out the cycle, it would make coming up with a game plan for use a little easier. Unless I shoot a few frames, I fill the buffer every time I pick the camera up. Using the M8 is a real cool experience. The engineers at leica should be ashamed for releasing a prototype to us in the first place, but the idea that this is just what it is really makes the idea that anyone could even consider using one of these professionally laughable. Such a shame ultimately, I really want to use this camera, sigh.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
No - you are completely wrong. Once the buffer is full, it will start clearing. As soon as one frame has been written the camera will take another image. The net result ius that it will take 12 frames at 2fps and then slow down to about 1 frame per 2 secs indefinitely - or rather until the SD card is full. Nothing about four minutes or such nonsense.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Brian - it doesn't. It fires as soon as one image is cleared.
In that case- they are probably using a circular buffer. Sounds good to me! Sometimes I miss those days of writing code for digital image acquisition systems. Mine was double-buffered, asynchronous traps (QIO interrupt driven) to free buffers after they were written. I had one tape drive that was 30MBytes per second, 160GBytes per tape. It sounded like a J-57 Jet Engine.
Too Funny what you can find on the Internet.
http://www.thic.org/pdf/Oct96/ampex.twood.pdf
The presentation for the Ampex DCRsi. From the guy that I bought mine from. It was expensive.
I have yet to shoot faster than 2 frames in less than two seconds with the M8.
Still faster than waiting for the 2.5" 80MByte SCSI drive to spin-up on my Kodak DSLR. But when it is spinning, I can get 1 frame every two seconds. Sucks the batteries dry.
Too Funny what you can find on the Internet.
http://www.thic.org/pdf/Oct96/ampex.twood.pdf
The presentation for the Ampex DCRsi. From the guy that I bought mine from. It was expensive.
I have yet to shoot faster than 2 frames in less than two seconds with the M8.
Still faster than waiting for the 2.5" 80MByte SCSI drive to spin-up on my Kodak DSLR. But when it is spinning, I can get 1 frame every two seconds. Sucks the batteries dry.
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
If your camera does this (which I simply don't believe) you should send it to Leica, as it is faulty. It does not block, it slows down a bit. I recommend you keep the shutter button pressed instead of sitting around waiting for the flashing light to stop.
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
jesus some of you guys are presumptious.
take 15-20 pictures, hold the shutter release down and WAIT for minutes for it to fire while the light on the back flashes writing the media.
take 15-20 pictures, hold the shutter release down and WAIT for minutes for it to fire while the light on the back flashes writing the media.
ruslan
Established
M8 or M9 is a slow cameras, in fact much slower than Canon digital Rebel XSi ($500 camera
) if Canon will come out with M mount rangefinder, Leica will close factory doors
) if Canon will come out with M mount rangefinder, Leica will close factory doors
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
OK. I did that and it took 120 shots within four minutes. And??
As I said it will shoot at 1-1/2 fps until the card is full. If your camera will not do that it is faulty.
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Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
Yep. If I`m meandering the streets or countryside, I take the M8. If I want to shoot fast moving scenes, I take the dslr. If I happen to have taken the wrong camera, I make the most of it.
Stop worrying and enjoy.
Or get it repaired.
Or sell it to me for spares/repairs?
Stop worrying and enjoy.
Or get it repaired.
Or sell it to me for spares/repairs?
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nickmeertens
Established
Not sure what you save on your card, but I find write times no problem when just using RAW. Using RAW + JPEG makes it much slower though.
Lord Fluff
Established
Not defending the M8 as much as wondering - presumably you're therefore used to the 'buffer' on a film camera filling up too? How do you cope with that?
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
If the M8 only slowed me down as much as a film camera, or some amount of time roughly comparable, I wouldnt have taken the time to post this... Im trying to figure out whats up with my body and how to fix it, not to just bash the thing, I wish more people had the patience to realize that...
thanks to almost everyone for the feedback, appreciate it!
thanks to almost everyone for the feedback, appreciate it!