M9 conceptual sketches

[DougFord]

[FONT=&quot]The next camera Leica should design is a small, light weight interchangeable lens camera for PJ/documentary work.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Digital FF, 20mp +[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Auto focus lenses with manual focus capability[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]LCD, live view [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with vari-angle[/FONT][FONT=&quot] capability, fold-able and locked against the body if unused.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EVF
new lens mount design
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Body shape somewhat like the sigma DP1 with a molded grip. The size of the camera should be kept as small as possible, hopefully not too much bigger than the DP1.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sub frame made of light weight alloy with some sort of polymer body, perhaps a form of zytel. The entire camera would be unfinished, weather proof, flat black textured polymer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With the lens and battery removed the camera would be unbelievably light in weight and mass. Sans battery and lens with body cap installed, when thrown as far and high as humanly possible and allowed to land on the hard ground would still be fully intact, ready to load with both battery and lens.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To start with, three new special built auto focus prime lenses, 28mm, 35mm and 65mm. [/FONT]

 

[amateriat]

One thing I would like is, in conjunction with an LCD with live view (on a pivot, of course), and with the colour accuracy of the later Nikon dSLRs, would be a white balance tied to a control wheel. I can tune most of my dSLR bodies WB but it, in most cases, takes tweaking up and down, then escaping to check, then tweaking. It'd be nice to see the change immediately....

S

Damn...I knew I was forgetting something. That drives me a bit nuts when shooting digital as well. Thanks for this!

I didn't know Konica made a rangefinder. Is it as durable as a Leica?

(😉)

Mike, Mike, Mike...I can't take you anywhere, can I? 😉


- Barrett

 

[dfoo]

If instead EV comp. is operated by a button, you simply count the amount of clicks you are making and know exactly how much you have changed exposure. One click equals a change of -/+ 0.5 EV. Two click would mean -/+1 stop. A dial doesn't allow that sort of blind control. That's one thing I hate about my D700 and the lever on the R8/R9.

I don't know about the D700, but the 5d jog wheel is "clicky". Therefore with a wheel it would be the same thing... count the clicks. The advantage of a wheel over buttons is clear. Harder to accidently push, one control instead of two, easier to operate blind.

 

[Harry Lime]

I don't know about the D700, but the 5d jog wheel is "clicky". Therefore with a wheel it would be the same thing... count the clicks. The advantage of a wheel over buttons is clear. Harder to accidently push, one control instead of two, easier to operate blind.

I was a Canon shooter for several years (1-V) and had a 5D, before I sold it and went Nikon (D700), because I really disliked the EOS ergonomics.

One particular problem was that the dials would move quite easily, if brushed up against. The large dial on the back of my 1-v/EOS controlled shutter speed or AF points and every time you let the camera rest against your body, it would move change your settings. You could lock it, but that was a PIA in practice.

You're right that you can count the clicks on a dial wheel, but it's much harder to do, especially when you are moving or in the of the middle action. Just imagine yourself trying to delicately spin that dial one click, 2mm, while you are being pushed by a crowd at a demonstration and trying to keep track of the action. I've done it and it stinks. Pressing a button is faster and more intuitive.

It is surprisingly difficult to accidentally press one of the these button. I know that from shooting with both EOS bodies and the D700. Both the AE-L and EV buttons would have a rim that surrounds them, making it difficult to activate them, unless you deliberately intend to. The current buttons on the M8 need this rim, because they are very easily depressed by your palm when the camera is gripped.

 

[victoriapio]

M9 specs

M9 specs

I like ALMOST every suggestion, but would vote against the additional space required by "super battery" array. Keep the body small, small.

Great ideas and a very interesting thread.

O.C.

 

[Harry Lime]

Auto focus lenses with manual focus capability

If it's autofocus, it's no longer a rangefinder but a Contax G2/G2...
Do you mean AF in addition to the optomechanical rangefinder?

Body shape somewhat like the sigma DP1 with a molded grip. The size of the camera should be kept as small as possible, hopefully not too much bigger than the DP1.

I don't think you can fit a full frame or APS-H size chip in a camera that small. The DP1 is almost too small, to hold with some authority. At some point the size becomes 'fiddly'. It has to have a certain amount of heft.

 

[Harry Lime]

I like ALMOST every suggestion, but would vote against the additional space required by "super battery" array. Keep the body small, small.

Great ideas and a very interesting thread.

O.C.

Thanks.

The external battery pack would be optional for heavy duty or prolonged use. Wedding shooters and journalists would probably want it. It should be no bigger than a Leicavit or Rapidwinder.

Without the optional battery pack the camera would be the same size as an M8.

 

[Harry Lime]

Add a molded grip on the front and have a thumb-rest on the back, leaves room for the buttons. 🙂

How about a palm rest like the R6.2 uses? I have an R6.2 and the palm grip makes it very comfortable to hold. That way nothing would interfere with the AE-L and EV buttons.

 

[victoriapio]

Being a photographer, it would help if I read the first post as the "optional" battery array is plainly stated. 😀

Thanks.

The external battery pack would be optional for heavy duty or prolonged use. Wedding shooters and journalists would probably want it. It should be no bigger than a Leicavit or Rapidwinder.

Without the optional battery pack the camera would be the same size as an M8.

 

[nbphoto]

LCD's drain the battery, as does cocking the shutter etc. I would like to see a digital M9 with an advance lever for cocking the shutter, no display, simple spot metering etc. Have an iso selector similar to the m6, and nikon like ae lock just under the advance lever. Should display shutter speed and f number in the viewfinder. Shots left, and battery condition could be displayed in the view finder for minimal additional buttons. it should be full frame, 12+ mp, cloth shutter, only shoot in raw, and take compact flash.

 

[aizan]

i love it when people photoshop cameras. 🙂

- instead of the removable base plate, use normal hinged doors for the battery and memory compartments.

- get rid of the usb socket and blue dot (the brightness sensor)

- built-in image stabilization

 

[philipp.leser]

- Bluetooth. Given the relative difficulty of removing the SD card from the M8, it would be nice to tether the M9 "live" to either a laptop or external storage device when one is in the middle of a serious shooting jag that makes confetti out of even 16GB cards.

Bluetooth is very slow (at the most 2 MBit/s, i.e. 256 KByte/s). It would take 20 seconds to transfer a single 5 MByte RAW file.

Wifi would work, but the drain on the battery would be substantial.

Regards,
Philipp

 

[user237428934]

This is a really fruitful discussion except the posting of such running gags like "no lcd".
No one will ever produce such a camera for max. 50 customers who don't want an lcd.

I like the layout of the buttons for ae-lock and compensation.

Someone called for an APS-C size sensor. Why making the sensor smaller as todays size of the M8?

I don't want a cloth shutter. I want a fast shutter - at least 1/4000

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I put these together and was curious to see what people think.
The first approach is more traditional in nature.

Silly, silly silly...don't you know that Nikon has already made the greatest digital rangefinder the world has ever known?

Why waste your time on concrete, tangible ideas, when we already have the bestest theoretical Uberkamera of all time? 😱

 

[splitimageview]

Articulating LCD, flip it closed if you don't want to use it 🙂

 

[antiquark]

Bluetooth, image stabilization, matrix metering, autofocus, X-frames per second, LCD live-view, flip-out LCD, 1/4000 shutter...

That type of "everything including the kitchen sink" design simply isn't part of the Leica tradition. But then again, maybe Leica has to forget their history if they want to survive these days.

 

[user237428934]

Bluetooth, image stabilization, matrix metering, autofocus, X-frames per second, LCD live-view, flip-out LCD, 1/4000 shutter...

That type of "everything including the kitchen sink" design simply isn't part of the Leica tradition. But then again, maybe Leica has to forget their history if they want to survive these days.

That's it. Today you can't run an enterprise only with traditional products / concepts / technologies.

 

[Harry Lime]

That's it. Today you can't run an enterprise only with traditional products / concepts / technologies.

True, but products that try to be all things to all people, instead of doing a limited set if things better than anyone else, tend to fail in the marketplace.

It is a silly idea to try to turn a rangefinder in to a pseudo SLR. That's like trying to use a fork to eat soup and a spork is stupid, unless you have nothing else.

There is a place for a digital rangefinder in the market, but Leica has to build a product that is mature in terms of design and performance. If they then market and price it properly, it will sell.

 

[user237428934]

True, but products that try to be all things to all people, instead of doing a limited set if things better than anyone else, tend to fail in the marketplace.

It is a silly idea to try to turn a rangefinder in to a pseudo SLR. That's like trying to use a fork to eat soup and a spork is stupid, unless you have nothing else.

There is a place for a digital rangefinder in the market, but Leica has to build a product that is mature in terms of design and performance. If they then market and price it properly, it will sell.

You are right. That's why I like your first specification. Not too many gimmicks inside.

 

[Harry Lime]

You are right. That's why I like your first specification. Not too many gimmicks inside.

Yeah, the more I look at the two, the more I like the traditional model.

The M8x already does most things I want, with the exception of a few small, but serious design flaws that are easy to correct. And to be honest none of the additions, like the two buttons, are radical departure from where we already are. Weather sealing and a more advanced metering system are invisible to the user, except that your camera won't short out in the rain and your exposures are more accurate. Making the indents on the power switch stiffer is something Leica should have done years ago.