TJV
Well-known
Hi all.
News of the upcoming M9 is now all but official it seems, what with dealers in many parts of the world saying the same thing. Many I know for certain aren't quoting forums. I'm told it's definitely full frame, but this seems the only certain fact so far. Other reported specifications vary, like megapixels, IR filtration, etc.
Can we compile a list of reported specs?
So far I hear reports of between 16-20mp, full frame and fully IR filtered.
Anything else to add or modify?
News of the upcoming M9 is now all but official it seems, what with dealers in many parts of the world saying the same thing. Many I know for certain aren't quoting forums. I'm told it's definitely full frame, but this seems the only certain fact so far. Other reported specifications vary, like megapixels, IR filtration, etc.
Can we compile a list of reported specs?
So far I hear reports of between 16-20mp, full frame and fully IR filtered.
Anything else to add or modify?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Hm. I guess there's no reported specs available until Leica reports anything
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Whatever we manage to establish in this thread is going to be based on hearsay ... the only people who can give us actual facts on specs are Leica themselves.
Dr Kaufmann ... please feel free to join in here!
Dr Kaufmann ... please feel free to join in here!
TJV
Well-known
Yeah I know but it's late here and I'm a dreamer. Many dealers have definitely had official notice from Leica about the camera and I find it hard to believe they don't know more info. It seems the most quoted price is $7700US, which sounds about what I'd expect.
I had a really bad time with my M8s but I've been living in hope for the next evolution while adding to my lens collection. Two years after going back to film I've spent at least the predicted cost of the M9 on film and processing, and that would be a conservative guess. I won't be first in line to get an M9 this time around but it's definitely time to replace my film Ms with a digital equivalent.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm amazed that Leica have been able to develop an M8 replacement so soon considering their involvement with the new S2. The camera could turn out to be a disappointment if they're doing it just to keep the masses who were a little miffed at the shortcomings of the M8 happy.
They wouldn't want to stuff it up again by being somewhat preemptive!
That said ... the good Dr must have pretty deep pockets!
They wouldn't want to stuff it up again by being somewhat preemptive!
That said ... the good Dr must have pretty deep pockets!
TJV
Well-known
I'm amazed that Leica have been able to develop an M8 replacement so soon considering their involvement with the new S2. The camera could turn out to be a disappointment if they're doing it just to keep the masses who were a little miffed at the shortcomings of the M8 happy.
They wouldn't want to stuff it up again by being somewhat preemptive!
That said ... the good Dr must have pretty deep pockets!
It goes to show you how important it is to develop as much technology in house as possible, or at least how smart investment in R&D on the high end has a trickle down effect. I assume the processor and internal software will be directly comparable to the S2s. Perhaps the sensor is a smaller version of that used in the S2 also. An other example of the trickle down effect is the new 24 and 21mm Summilux-M lenses being possible because of research done on the S2 lenses.
I'm with you though, I hope it's been well tested! I imagine there have been a few well known photographers field testing over the last few months. Anyone know of any Magnum guys sporting funky looking "M8s" lately?
Olsen
Well-known
I think it is vital that Leica comes up with a new and far better M-model soon. If not, they will go bust in today's digital camera market. The M8 is far from perfect. This IR/UV filter thing is a mess, the computer speed all too low, reliability too low (red lines, dead cameras etc.) - and the high ISO performance way inferior compared to competition. Leica can't wait for 15 - 20 years between new model introductions anymore. The dynamics of the digital camera market does not work that way. If they can't launch a new model every 3 - 4 years with improvements that the market ask for, they are gone.
Now that a M9 is imminent I am sighing with relief. My M8 is worth more. Because it represents a camera system that is now confirmed being followed up by Leica. I bought my M8 very early and bought it for a price just 15 - 20% higher than today's M8 2.hand prices. With a little luck I could end up losing nothing (but the interest on the capital spent).
I hope to sell my M8 for NOK 18 - 20.000, a price equal to $ 3 - 3,300 (don't forget, here in Norway a M8 sells for 42.000 NOK 6,775 $ because of the 20% sales tax). A 8,000 US$ M9 will sell for equal to 49.600 NOK in Singapore.
With the advantage of buying off-shore at tax free prices and selling my 2.hand gear in a market with 20% sales tax, I will come off not all that ripped off. I have to raise the difference of 31.600 - 29.600 NOK - which equals the price of a Nikon D3x at 32.000 NOK here in Norway. I could sell my Noctilux and I would probably balance, but I will not do that. First all my analogue film gear is going out. Yes, I am selling it all too late, but now it will go, for for pennies.
Now that a M9 is imminent I am sighing with relief. My M8 is worth more. Because it represents a camera system that is now confirmed being followed up by Leica. I bought my M8 very early and bought it for a price just 15 - 20% higher than today's M8 2.hand prices. With a little luck I could end up losing nothing (but the interest on the capital spent).
I hope to sell my M8 for NOK 18 - 20.000, a price equal to $ 3 - 3,300 (don't forget, here in Norway a M8 sells for 42.000 NOK 6,775 $ because of the 20% sales tax). A 8,000 US$ M9 will sell for equal to 49.600 NOK in Singapore.
With the advantage of buying off-shore at tax free prices and selling my 2.hand gear in a market with 20% sales tax, I will come off not all that ripped off. I have to raise the difference of 31.600 - 29.600 NOK - which equals the price of a Nikon D3x at 32.000 NOK here in Norway. I could sell my Noctilux and I would probably balance, but I will not do that. First all my analogue film gear is going out. Yes, I am selling it all too late, but now it will go, for for pennies.
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Never Satisfied
Well-known
I'm really not that convinced that the M9 will be all that different to the M8. The shutter assey was already from a full frame camera (R9 I believe) and based on the evolution between the traditional M bodies, ie M2 to M6 there really isn't much appart from metering. If you look at the evolution between other camera manufacturers models I think all we should expect is full frame, a bigger screen, maybe HD video and if we're lucky a chip by Sony instead of Kodak.
Andrew.
Andrew.
Olsen
Well-known
A little correction: A Nikon D3X costs NOK 60.000 here in Norway. The balance between my 2.hand M8 and a new M9 will be more in line with what a Canon 5D II with a EF 24-70 mm 2,8L costs here in Norway at around NOK 31.000. - Which is not all that bad.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
The missing part of this rumor is how someone resolved the sensor problem for a rangefinder and why nobody has heard about it. There is no reason for stealth for Leica. It's not like the competition is just waiting to produce a full frame rangefinder. There just seems something wrong with speculation about a FF M9 being imminent.
Perhaps they have figured out how to use heavy digital processing to compensate in software for the issues a FF sensor creates, but I can't imagine potential buyers of such a camera would be happy with with such a solution. Kind of negates the advantages of really expensive lenses.
Interesting, none the less.
Perhaps they have figured out how to use heavy digital processing to compensate in software for the issues a FF sensor creates, but I can't imagine potential buyers of such a camera would be happy with with such a solution. Kind of negates the advantages of really expensive lenses.
Interesting, none the less.
Olsen
Well-known
Leica has stated, and that is official, that they cooperate with Kodak on sensors. Leica has also confirmed that they can't cooperate on certain projects with the Japanese 'because Leica is not a Japanese company'. - Which I think, confirms, what I have always stated, that much of the ground breaking product development within the Japanese camera industry are subsidized by the Japanese government/tax payers.
Still, that is a good thing. What Leica needs is a specially designed sensor for a RFF camera with steep angles of light hitting the corners of the sensor. A Sony - or Canon, sensor will be useless on a RFF camera. It could be argued that they are not all that successes on DSLRs either. With certain wide angle lenses the vignetting/light fall off on a Canon 1Ds III could be 2 -3 stops from centre to the corners. Put that sensor into a M8 and no light will hit the corners at all....
Olsen
Well-known
Agree.
It is a mystery that nobody at the many internet photo sites have not heard of this ground breaking development of digital camera sensors that should make a 'perfect' M9 possible.
dfoo
Well-known
My guess is it is not possible. The solution is likely micro lenses (like the M8), plus lots of software correction.
Olsen
Well-known
Studying a typical M8 file from a wide angle lens, it is hard to see any real improvement that is supposed to come from these miraculous micro lenses. What I see is 'software manipulation'.
MacDaddy
Certified Machead
There is a HUGE amount of research ongoing in sensor technology, with many advancements from different companies these days! Hopefully, Leica has properly investigated some of these new options and chosen wisely for the M9. As for rumors, well, the M8 in any flavor disappeared as an option from B &H Photo's website at least two months ago! Not even a "backordered" flag on it when you look under Leica DSLRs! Hmmm! Seems to be pretty good evidence to me of a new model coming when the ONLY model listed is the S2 as "New, coming soon" don't you think?
Olsen
Well-known
Sure, a new model, a M9, is now imminent. There can't be much doubt about that. Still, I am a bit wary on how they have solved problems that we were told were 'impossible' to solve as short back as 4 - 5 years ago... What I hope for is no more IR/UV filter hassle and not too much software manipulation. - Well, not more than is obviously accepted among Nikon D-SLR users.
dfoo
Well-known
Since you speak with authority it appears then you have access to an M8 that contains a sensor without the microlenses and software manipulation for comparison. I'd be interested in seeing some sample images that demonstrate the lack of improvement from microlenses.
Dan States
Established
It's there today for $3995.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/15389/Digital_Cameras_Rangefinder_Digital_Cameras.html
Dan States
Established
If offering a replacement model increases the value of a used M8 I believe that will be a first. Introducing the M8.2 knocked $1000 off the new price of the M8 and used prices followed in step.
Leica's are camera jewelry for many and I predict a flood of M8/8.2 for sale posts if the rumored camera is really announced.
Olsen
Well-known
I have access to an ordinary M8, which I have had for three and a half years. I can send you 'tons' of DNG files by e-mail if you like. - I could also send you a similar amount of RAW files from my 1Ds III, if you like. So, you can compare.
Most relevant would be files from, say, my WATE, with the lens detection set to 'off', don't you agree...? Any other setting would be 'software manipulation', - or..?