FrozenInTime
Well-known
I'm about as likely to buy an S2 as I am to buy my own airplane.
Not that it's likely to be a choice I would ever get to make either, but if I did, I know what I would rather have for the same money:
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/s7sspricinginfo.htm
Richard Marks
Rexel
Fortunately not the case
It is very premature to talk about sales until they are sold!
I hope it sells but I really think it's dicey! There really is not the pro service support infrastructure to compare with Hasselblad.
Anyhow all we can do is wait.
I am certainly not rushing into an M9
my D700 is a refreshing change.
Spot metering,no ir filters, and all my old manual focus lenses work without any daft 6bit chips. Oh and ttl flash
Richard
axiom
Non-Registered User
Seriously, I more want a full frame R-D1 if I get to choose.
Give me a full frame R-D1 please, I don't mind if it's Japanese or even made-in-China, I am just so used to those easily accessible EV bias/wb/ISO/image quality setting stuff, the VF shutter speed reading stuff, and the dial reading stuff etc...
Oh, and its cheap batteries
Give me a full frame R-D1 please, I don't mind if it's Japanese or even made-in-China, I am just so used to those easily accessible EV bias/wb/ISO/image quality setting stuff, the VF shutter speed reading stuff, and the dial reading stuff etc...
Oh, and its cheap batteries
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Doesn't the S2 have a battery grip? Anyone seen a photo with the grip attached?
Richard Marks
Rexel
Ok this is getting even sillier. We do not know how big the S2 is or what the lenses are made of. It could be smaller than a D700 or as big as a pentax 67. Some one has seen a dummy version. And it already has"strong sales" and is ready for shipping, and production and economics of the M9 are thought to be strongly linked to it!
Leica are about to launch two very big products. We seriously have to hope it is better handled than the Dmr and M8 projects. I can not understand all the secrecy. It implies to me though that things are still unfinished and hence final specifications are still changing. Still s2 sales are strong so no worries.
Richard
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I'm more interested in the Hasselblads pros are dumping in anticipation of the release of the S2. I've lusted after a modern 'blad with a digital back for a long time, but they have been out of my price range. Once the S2 is out, and pros dump 'blads en mass, maybe this will drive the price down enough to make a used one affordable. Would certainly give my lenses new life!
jaap
Jaap
Now that would be a miracle if the S2 is able to get Leica back on the professional track
Richard Marks
Rexel
With strong sales already it's a done deal!
What could possibly go wrong! It's got an ir cutout filter right?
Richard
Richard Marks
Rexel
Ben
perhaps the prototype you saw was plastic and the finished version is metal.
I still do not get an impression of "strong sales".
Incidentally UK price body only £16,000.
This would not easilly compete with the h3d on price or resolution. Also Hassy has a world wide service support network, good precedent in the field, and a modular upgradable magazine system which also still allows film! Leica has a mountain to climb to crack this. Added to this the target Market is not doing too well at present.
I reckon"strong sales" probably means a few guys said they would like a look.
I really hope for the best but am genuinely concerned adverse s2 outcome may adversely affect the development and cost of the M9
Richard
Wiyum
Established
I have to say, the prominent disdain for both the S2 and M9 are puzzling to me. Healthy skepticism is understandable, but from where I'm standing these are (assuming the M9 exists, is FF, etc) attractive looking products. The S2 with normal lens isn't priced too much higher than the Hasselblad H3Dii-39 kit, and while it is shy a whopping 1.5 megapixels, you get an integrated system promising faster autofocus, faster write speeds/general performance, and vastly-improved handholdability. Those speed gains aren't exactly difficult targets to hit with an integrated, new-from-the-ground-up system, but I can understand a "we'll see" mentality. It is the attitude that the idea of the product (a small, handholdable, fast-performing medium format digital, essentially a bigger-sensored D700) is flawed that baffles me.
I suppose my point is that for years Leica's been mis-stepping left and right, out of the gate and obviously. These things certainly seem like good ideas that, if well-executed, are exactly the things Leica should be working on.
That said, any suggestion that the S2 is already selling well seems suspect.
I suppose my point is that for years Leica's been mis-stepping left and right, out of the gate and obviously. These things certainly seem like good ideas that, if well-executed, are exactly the things Leica should be working on.
That said, any suggestion that the S2 is already selling well seems suspect.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Wiyum, you obviously didn't read the pitch on the DMR when it was about to be introduced. Now it, and the R series of cameras it was made for, are gone.
Wiyum
Established
I vaguely recall reading that, but I certainly wasn't in the market, so it wasn't retained.
Nonetheless, I'm fine with skepticism. It is sensible: Leica has yet to deliver a digital product that isn't accompanied by a laundry list of nagging-to-crippling problems. The time with Jenoptik serves as a reason to hope for a different experience this time around, but guarantees nothing.
What I'm really speaking to is those that seem to think that the S2, if delivered with promises intact, is a product that no one wants. I think it sounds great; dare I say it, if I had the money for a medium format digital system, it would be the one I'd want most (provided, again, that it delivers on its promises). The core idea of the product is an extremely strong one in my opinion.
Nonetheless, I'm fine with skepticism. It is sensible: Leica has yet to deliver a digital product that isn't accompanied by a laundry list of nagging-to-crippling problems. The time with Jenoptik serves as a reason to hope for a different experience this time around, but guarantees nothing.
What I'm really speaking to is those that seem to think that the S2, if delivered with promises intact, is a product that no one wants. I think it sounds great; dare I say it, if I had the money for a medium format digital system, it would be the one I'd want most (provided, again, that it delivers on its promises). The core idea of the product is an extremely strong one in my opinion.
axiom
Non-Registered User
Somehow quite a few people think that S2 is Leica's mistake.
I think not!
IMO S2 shows Leica's wisdom. The current 35mm SLR format is getting cheapen by those hot Japanese companies, soon every neighbour of yours will be shooting 35mm full frame, and your kid will ask for a full frame dSLR for christmas gift. Leica as a luxury brand has to pull out of this cheap market.
On the other hand, there are always people who are pro enough and wealthy enough to invest in some high priced MF, market certainly exists, and with the competition in the current MF market having no obvious winners, it is better if Leica steps in sooner. Now Leica this elite brandname is having 2 unique products of its own: a 35mm full frame dRF and a high performance MF dSLR.
How else could be better than this?
I think not!
IMO S2 shows Leica's wisdom. The current 35mm SLR format is getting cheapen by those hot Japanese companies, soon every neighbour of yours will be shooting 35mm full frame, and your kid will ask for a full frame dSLR for christmas gift. Leica as a luxury brand has to pull out of this cheap market.
On the other hand, there are always people who are pro enough and wealthy enough to invest in some high priced MF, market certainly exists, and with the competition in the current MF market having no obvious winners, it is better if Leica steps in sooner. Now Leica this elite brandname is having 2 unique products of its own: a 35mm full frame dRF and a high performance MF dSLR.
How else could be better than this?
Richard Marks
Rexel
The S2 looks stunning but to make decent sales it must make it in the professional Market. Leica is only a "luxury brand" because rich amateurs are the ones who can afford it and do not need economic justification. Expensive is not the same as "luxury". Professionals will find the money somehow for a must have unique product. Leicas service support alone is enought to see off professional sales. One simply can not send everthing back to Germany.
I am anxious about both new product launches purely on precedent. The Dmr was around 2 years late and by the time it appeared the competition had moved on. It is a superb piece of engineering wrong price, wrong time.
Richard
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
That is well said. Another aspect: as soon as each kid has this FF DSLR, a highly paid pro, or even a mid-level one, will need something visible to market his work (apart from excellent photographs of course) It may be nonsense and windowdressing, but a CEO needs to drive an S class Mercedes, otherwise people will begin to wonder whether he is any good.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
"Now Leica this elite brandname is having 2 unique products of its own: a 35mm full frame dRF and a high performance MF dSLR.
How else could be better than this?"
How about actual products in use and reviewed? You are talking about a DSLR that nobody has seen a raw file from, much less held a working camera and a DRF that Leica has not acknowledged exists. Yet we hear they are blowing off the shelf in huge numbers.
How else could be better than this?"
How about actual products in use and reviewed? You are talking about a DSLR that nobody has seen a raw file from, much less held a working camera and a DRF that Leica has not acknowledged exists. Yet we hear they are blowing off the shelf in huge numbers.
Micky D
-
There is a lot of nonsense speculation here eh?
I can't remember the numbers, but the MF dSLR is barely MF anyway.
The sensor size is only a little larger than 35mm, certainly smaller than the smallest MF: 6x4.5.
Richard Marks
Rexel
climbing_vine
Well-known
It's not well-said, it's nonsense. There is no "obvious winner" in digital MF because its marginal value over "FF" digital is, essentially, not worth the 10x cost to anyone. A very, very few people make the equation work, but until we are all routinely viewing images at billboard size in our living rooms it's just an irrelevant market.
Leica used to not be a "luxury" brand, and since they became one their fortunes have gone in exactly one direction: straight down. Thinking that retreating further into this Quixotic foxhole will save them is just nutty, I don't mean to be offensive (honestly) but there's no other way to describe it.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
When taking this into consideration, there might yet be a bit of truth in the S2-to-M9 sensor re-cutting story: I guess the M9 sensors will fit very nicely into the dead corners of a wafer filled with S2 sensors
Finally some people on the court who have intimate knowledge on the production process and cost effectiveness of processes.