M9 profile: embedded or adobe standard?

[EdwardKaraa]

Which one do you like more for ACR conversions? Embedded is the camera profile by the manufacturer. Adobe standard is the profile adobe creates for the camera. I personally find adobe standard to be more pleasing, while embedded may be more subdued and neutral. I use adobe standard.

 

[maggieo]

I use Apple's Aperture, so I believe it uses the M9's profile, which I find to be very pleasing.

 

[EdwardKaraa]

By the way is there any technical reason that one should use embedded instead of adobe standard? Maybe color accuracy or something similar? I read somewhere that the M9 color emulates Kodachrome 25. Sorry for asking but I'm new to this. My M9 is only 7 days old 🙂

 

[venchka]

Clueless about the M9. With R2D2 (Canon 1D Mk III), for anything important, I usually run through all of Lightroom's profiles. About 95%-99% of the time I use the Faithful option. No clue what that means, but I also set the camera to Faithful. One profile that I have NEVER EVER used is Landscape. Bottom line: Use whatever works. Go figure. It's a digital thing.

Wayne

 

[kbg32]

Adobe 1998 color profile.

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Keith, my question is about the color profile of the camera not the color space 🙂

Ok, there are 3 guys who voted for the original embedded profile made by Leica. I would love to hear from you about the reason why you use it?

 

[jaapv]

So easily tweaked in post processing - rather irrelevant.
As for color space: Prophoto to avoid color clipping - sRGB and Adobe RGB are output spaces to adapt to the output medium.

 

[hellomikmik]

By the way is there any technical reason that one should use embedded instead of adobe standard? Maybe color accuracy or something similar? I read somewhere that the M9 color emulates Kodachrome 25. Sorry for asking but I'm new to this. My M9 is only 7 days old 🙂

did leica or adobe used zeiss lenses when they were making those profiles? probably not.

edit to clarify: zeiss lenses deliver different colors than leica (probably caused by different coating), i suppose that leica or adobe used leica lenses when they measured the sensors color response and built the profile.

 

[Jim-st]

This thread has rambled a bit, but the original question was about the profiles you'll find in the Profile menu in the Camera Calibration panel in LR's Develop module.

It's not hard to make your own camera calibration profiles (you might want different profiles for daylight, tungsten, etc) using Adobe's free DNG Profile Editor and a 24-patch colour checker from X-Rite (formerly Gretag Macbeth).
You can add these to the Profile menu, and maybe to your Import Preset. I generally make my own custom Daylight Profile on the first dry, bright day after I buy a new digital camera, and have preferred these to embedded or Adobe Standard profiles in 99% of daylight (and great majority of other) shots. Bear in mind these profiles are intended to be used at import, and provide a starting point/ context for work in the Develop module: the camera profile should be set before white balance, tonal or colour adjustments.

did leica or adobe used zeiss lenses when they were making those profiles? probably not.

Lens Profiles are another thing entirely. They're for correcting lens-specific optical aberrations, and LR now has a good stock of Leica lens profiles. For Zeiss or CV lenses, and unlisted Leica lenses, I think we're likely to be on our own, with only something like Adobe's free Lens Profile Creator to allow us to build profiles for our own lenses. It's free, but looks daunting, and so far nobody seems to have uploaded any profiles for RF lenses...

Maybe somebody here has tried it and can report on their experiences

 

[Tom Niblick]

So easily tweaked in post processing - rather irrelevant.
As for color space: Prophoto to avoid color clipping - sRGB and Adobe RGB are output spaces to adapt to the output medium.

It all depends on how you are using your images. sRGB is good for the web. It plays well with JPEG. Adobe RGB 1998 is fine for most purposes. Prophoto retains the most color information.

In a color managed workflow a camera profile is assigned at capture then it is converted into an editing space like Prophoto/Adobe RGB 1998/sRGB and finally a paper/canvas/film profile is assigned at output in the printer driver. Using Prophoto is a great practice but your printer may not support this space. Most printers hit a color output somewhere between Adobe 1998 and sRGB.

Kodak mapped the M8 and M9 sensor output to look like Kodachrome 64. That is the reds, greens, blues and yellows conform to similar numeric values as measured from this transparency film. In practice the M8 and M9 have a greater dynamic range while retaining the qualities that Paul Simon praised in his music. Like Paul, the M8 and M9 are destined to be classics.

 

[Tom Niblick]

This thread has rambled a bit, but the original question was about the profiles you'll find in the Profile menu in the Camera Calibration panel in LR's Develop module.

It's not hard to make your own camera calibration profiles...

Maybe somebody here has tried it and can report on their experiences

Perhaps I too misunderstood the OP question. I use EyeOne's Profile Maker Pro to create profiles for my BetterLight scanback, scanners and the media I print on my Epsons. Using a color managed workflow is a must in art reproduction. But when it comes to my Leica files, I've been quite happy just to convert them using ACR and tweak them in PS 6. I'm not using my Leicas to shoot fashion, products or art so an exact color match is not necessary. My Leica photos just need to make me happy and please the galleries that carry my work.

 

[thompsonks]

I believe the OP was asking only about the choice between the two profiles offered in LR/ACR – Embedded or Adobe Standard.

IMO the embedded Leica profile places too much emphasis on reds, especially in bright sunlight; also in skin tones. You can switch to Adobe Standard for a bit of improvement, or use the Red slider for more.

(I checked 'Depends on photo' in the little poll.)

 

[x-ray]

I create my own profiles under the lighting conditions I'm shooting. I process in LR4. Much better than what's provided.

 

[jcrutcher]

I use Adobe Standard when I can. In LR4 there is no Adobe Standard option for a X2 so I used embedded. I'm interested in learning more about this. Good thread.

 

[mikemc_photo]

ACR and sRGB are what I know

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Since I started this thread, I have switched back and forth between Adobe Standard and Embedded. Contrarily to what I posted earlier, I think Adobe Standard produces the most neutral (or standard) results. Embedded is definitely not neutral, and the skin tones can be quite magenta. It has also higher default saturation and contrast. But it can produce much more interesting Kodachrome-like results. I am still using Adobe Standard as the main profile as I have been mostly complemented about skin tones with this profile. But deep inside I still like Embedded because it's different.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

I'm using the Huelight profiles for my M-E. Normally the standard one. If I want a little more punch to start with before I begin post process I will use the High version.

http://www.colorfidelity.com/

 

[Ronald M]

This thread has rambled a bit, but the original question was about the profiles you'll find in the Profile menu in the Camera Calibration panel in LR's Develop module.

It's not hard to make your own camera calibration profiles (you might want different profiles for daylight, tungsten, etc) using Adobe's free DNG Profile Editor and a 24-patch colour checker from X-Rite (formerly Gretag Macbeth).
You can add these to the Profile menu, and maybe to your Import Preset. I generally make my own custom Daylight Profile on the first dry, bright day after I buy a new digital camera, and have preferred these to embedded or Adobe Standard profiles in 99% of daylight (and great majority of other) shots. Bear in mind these profiles are intended to be used at import, and provide a starting point/ context for work in the Develop module: the camera profile should be set before white balance, tonal or colour adjustments.



Lens Profiles are another thing entirely. They're for correcting lens-specific optical aberrations, and LR now has a good stock of Leica lens profiles. For Zeiss or CV lenses, and unlisted Leica lenses, I think we're likely to be on our own, with only something like Adobe's free Lens Profile Creator to allow us to build profiles for our own lenses. It's free, but looks daunting, and so far nobody seems to have uploaded any profiles for RF lenses...

Maybe somebody here has tried it and can report on their experiences

Absolutely correct. It fixed the colors of my M8 so it is close to the M9.

Then go into ACR preferences and check the box to make default setting specific to camera serial number. Then save profile and other tweeks as new camera raw defaults. Close and reopen PS and the new profile is automatically applied. You will still need to WB the photo.

 

[Richard G]

Absolutely correct. It fixed the colors of my M8 so it is close to the M9.

Then go into ACR preferences and check the box to make default setting specific to camera serial number. Then save profile and other tweeks as new camera raw defaults. Close and reopen PS and the new profile is automatically applied. You will still need to WB the photo.

Ronald M, what is absolutely correct....???

I hate what the M9 does with reds. How do I fix that?

 

[EdwardKaraa]

I'm using the Huelight profiles for my M-E. Normally the standard one. If I want a little more punch to start with before I begin post process I will use the High version.

http://www.colorfidelity.com/

Thank you very much for this valuable piece of info, Duane.

Could you please let us know more in detail the reasons why you prefer these custom profiles, or perhaps show one simple comparison with adobe standard vs color fidelity?