m9 the working mans version?

[emraphoto]

i am curious as to how well an M9 geared up towards pj's would fly?

Leica's name really is what it is due to the work of folks who worked out in the field/elements/muck. yet it seems to pay little attention to that crowd these days. i understand the 'luxury association' marketing gig. i get the titanium M9 and ostrich hermes Mwhatever.

would it do Leica any good to reinvest in the folks who are out there shooting the top tier reportage work? would folks be inclined to buy into a system that is associated with names behind the images of our times?

i know the dlsr versatility response. the majority of shooters are using dslrs. there are folks out that shooting m's for a living.

so, how about a sealed up M9? a service network that goes above and beyond to keep shooting? a concerted effort by leica to cultivate talent loyal to the brand? i love shooting m's... still rockin' them (film versions). i would be very hard pressed to invest in an M9 now as it would mean going down to a single camera ($). i wouldn't hesitate to shoot a job on single 1d series camera though. is there a glaring disconnect here?

these are not intended as condemnations of anything. more questions about viability. if we could keep it on track(ish) that would be most appreciated.

 

[Sam N]

You're right about there being pros using Ms out there, but
A) there aren't enough of them to make a proper service network viable
B) there are even fewer who would/could pay MORE for a sealed version. None of the lenses are weather-sealed anyway, so weather-sealing the camera wouldn't do much good. A "tougher" M9 would probably need to be heavier and bigger, but light weight and small size are some of the main advantages of RFs.

 

[swoop]

I'd love a sealed version of the M9. But unsealed lenses would kind of make it pointless. Either way I still use my M9 in moderately wet conditions. What irks me are the moments in the freezing cold where the M9 locks up. It doesn't happen often. But when it does it's extremely annoying.

I use the M9 exclusively to cover news. Because I don't own any other system. my 5D mk2 and lenses were stolen. I'm slowly trying to save up the cash to build up another Canon kit. But even still. The M9 comes with me 95% of the time. I'd much rather have the top notch lenses and compactness of the kit than a huge SLR with the only real advantage being autofocus and ISO's above 1600. Oh and every so often a 200mm comes in handy. It's a real pain to only have a 90mm as your longest lens.

 

[emraphoto]

well you would need to be pretty established to try shooting for a daily with an M long term. digital or film.

of course the lenses available would need the same treatment. i am unsure if this would mean a substantial size difference... i mean the pentax k-7/5 are pretty small.

there is leica pro service so the system is already in place.

i just can't figure why they (leica) don't offer a more 'working janet/joe' specific model. wouldn't it add to their brand legitimacy to have a Pellegrin or something espousing the M versus celebrities and that Weeks fella?

 

[gavinlg]

The problem is that the m9 is just too expensive outright, lacks any sealing whatsoever, has dismal battery life in comparison the DSLRs, and has more of a precision instrument aura about it than the dslr's, which translate more as a blunt tool.

I might be shot or lynched for saying this on this forum, but they should make something like an m9p(ress) with a polycarbonate/aluminium or titanium composite body, stronger and vibration resistant RF mechanism, inbuilt IR flash master controller. If they fitted it with something like a sony 35mm sensor, and then tuned it to imitate the kodak color response, it would mean journalists could use slower/cheaper lenses and not have to worry about low light performance as much... That way it has the real advantage of size and weight of the camera and 2-3 lenses being MUCH less than DSLRs.

The m9 is wonderful but the very nature of it is what keeps it from being THE photojournalists tool of choice - if they made it tougher, sealed and a little more versatile perhaps it would fare better?

 

[Nikkor AIS]

With the exception of availability which is beginning to ease up, I really don't see why the Leica M9 isn't a working man's tool right now. While the price is high, it's not far off from the D3S.
Its size alone makes it the ideal tool for many journalistic applications. I don't see how it's any less a precision instrument than my
D3 .

I have yet to hear of one M9 failing from being rained on.

And that is the first time I have heard of the M9 freezing up in the cold.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I wouldn't be delivering construction materials on a Lexus, either.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I wouldn't be delivering construction materials on a Lexus, either.

That's because a Lexus is a miserably small motor car. I knew somebody who carried pigs in the back of his Rolls Royce. All right, 'knew' is an exaggeration, but he was a well-known figure in the village where I was born.

Cheers,

R.

 

[emraphoto]

With the exception of availiblity which is beginning to ease up . I really don't see why the Leica M9 isnt a working mans tool right now. Whiule the price is high, it's not far off from the D3s.
It's size alone makes it the ideal tool for many journalistic applications. I dont see how it's any nore a percison instrument than my D3.

I have yet to hear of one M9 failing from being rained on.

And that is the first time I have heard of the M9 freezing up in the cold.

a few things come to mind. a d3 is in a totally different league when it comes to durability. amongst the working shmoes i know leica has a terrible record with it's digital cameras for reliability and support. just or not this reputation stands in stark contrast to it's past.

 

[emraphoto]

I wouldn't be delivering construction materials on a Lexus, either.

if i understand this comment correctly it speaks volumes. the name and mythology that has made the m system what it is seems to have taken a back seat to "luxury". in the long run will this sell more cameras than being known as a tough as nails, reliable reportage tool used by some of the greats of our times?

i don't know the answer but have my suspicions.

 

[Neare]

If Leica ever did make it, the camera would probably read something like this:


"Announcing: M9 weather-sealed special edition!

Designed by Louis Vuitton
It comes with a unique hammertone finish and 'real' croc leather covering.
Only 1000 units worldwide and it can be all yours for the small price of $19,999usd!"

 

[Keith]

If Leica ever did make it, the camera would probably read something like this:


"Announcing: M9 weather-sealed special edition!

Designed by Louis Vuitton
It comes with a unique hammertone finish and 'real' croc leather covering.
Only 1000 units worldwide and it can be all yours for the small price of $19,999usd!"

That would be Leica all over wouldn't it ... I think you hit the nail on the head.

Release a pro version called the M9-P as a specially boxed limited edition and charge a bundle for it! Available accessories would be a press badge to wear on your shirt or maybe one of those neat vests with all the pockets ... so you can look like a real photojournalist!

 

[Colin G.]

Neare and Keith....seriously lol! I hope the photog vest is vicuna. I can't take photos without my VICUNA!

 

[menos]

if i understand this comment correctly it speaks volumes. the name and mythology that has made the m system what it is seems to have taken a back seat to "luxury". in the long run will this sell more cameras than being known as a tough as nails, reliable reportage tool used by some of the greats of our times?

i don't know the answer but have my suspicions.

I think, the historic aura with all those famous figures, having used Leica Ms sells well and high priced in combination with Ostrich and Hermes leatherettes in limited batches.

It is all about a business model, that works, keeps the company running, it's employees in work …

At the moment, it looks, Leica is on the right path, to sustain the business.
We will see, what the future brings. It doesn't look like Leica's strategy is to compete in the paid shooters business with
Canon and Nikon. It is a pretty fast race, to get involved in.

 

[Roger Hicks]

If Leica ever did make it, the camera would probably read something like this:


"Announcing: M9 weather-sealed special edition!

Designed by Louis Vuitton
It comes with a unique hammertone finish and 'real' croc leather covering.
Only 1000 units worldwide and it can be all yours for the small price of $19,999usd!"

Oh, come on! This smacks of sour grapes. Here's another way of looking at it:

The M9 is perfectly suitable for people who know how to look after their cameras, but not for gorillas who smash them around.

Many years ago, in Guadalupe, CA, I met the prototype of the brain-dead wannabee PJ. He was walking around (at the Passion Play) with an F2 with no lens on it. Guadalupe is a dusty, windy village near the coast. I said, "Wouldn't it be a good idea to put a lens on to keep the dust out?"

He replied, ostentatiously chewing his gum to show that he was a big tough pro PJ and I was just a nobody, "Nah. Nikons are tough."

Yes, an M9 will break before a modern PJ DSLR does. Then again, it's about a quarter of the size. So, if the job really calls for it, use a monster bulletproof DSLR. Otherwise, use the best camera for the job.

Menos makes an excellent point. Which would people rather have: a company making Leicas that don't quite correspond to their fantasies, or no new Leicas?

Cheers,

R.

 

[monochromejrnl]

i am curious as to how well an M9 geared up towards pj's would fly?

Leica's name really is what it is due to the work of folks who worked out in the field/elements/muck. yet it seems to pay little attention to that crowd these days. i understand the 'luxury association' marketing gig. i get the titanium M9 and ostrich hermes Mwhatever.

would it do Leica any good to reinvest in the folks who are out there shooting the top tier reportage work? would folks be inclined to buy into a system that is associated with names behind the images of our times?

i know the dlsr versatility response. the majority of shooters are using dslrs. there are folks out that shooting m's for a living.

so, how about a sealed up M9? a service network that goes above and beyond to keep shooting? a concerted effort by leica to cultivate talent loyal to the brand? i love shooting m's... still rockin' them (film versions). i would be very hard pressed to invest in an M9 now as it would mean going down to a single camera ($). i wouldn't hesitate to shoot a job on single 1d series camera though. is there a glaring disconnect here?

these are not intended as condemnations of anything. more questions about viability. if we could keep it on track(ish) that would be most appreciated.

Does Leica offer a 'pro service' membership comparable to Nikon Pro Service or Canon Pro Service? Friends of mine who are members of one or the other have been mailed out loaner cameras/lenses when their gear had to be sent in for repair.

I imagine that if Leica did offer such a program that more pros would be inclined to use M9s in the field (if they knew they could mail out a camera for repair and have a loaner shipped to them while they waited).

 

[Traut]

An M9 with a 28 or 35 could be useful for ancillary shots. However, in the bustle of fast moving situations give me an AF DSLR and a 24-70 or 70-200 to bring back the job. Also, after seeing what just transpired in Egypt I could actually see sacrificing the camera over a few heads to stay safe.

 

[Turtle]

Leicas being made is better than Leicas not being made, but I have also had the same concerns about the direction the company has gone in in terms of its long-term viability (but I know nothing about their business, which I freely admit). Leica is surely still associated with legends of the past and before too very long that connection will begin to wane. You can't trade on past glories forever. I cannot comment on the S2 which appears to have been a genuine effort to nail a niche pro market (whether it worked I dont know), but the M9 is too expensive and lacking in certain areas to take the brand back to where it used to be in terms of reportage. Its is selling like hot cakes, which is great, and I might still buy one, but it would be fantastic if some of the revenue could be put into levering the M line back into viability for a wider selection of reportage shooters. The M10 could eat away at some of the wish list people have for the next camera and lets hope so.

I do not agree with Roger that a the M9's lack of sealing is only an issue for apes. Lots of pros get caught in heavy rain far from cover, or with dust constantly in the air. These are not extreme climates but actually very common for the sort of people John is talking about. I understand that the lenses are not sealed, but if an effort was made to at least seal the bodies as best they could and seal the lens mount/lens interface, a lot of the risk to the body would be averted, dust cut down and the worst you would be looking at would be a CLA on a lens not a total loss on a $7K body... Some sealing is better than none because it reduces risk and this matters by reducing the likelihood we will get stung even if we know it is not a complete 100% solution to a problem.

I don't think Leica could afford to cater to the issues raised during the M8-M9 development era. The film market had shrunk and they were miles behind the market in terms of digital. The M8 was a bridging camera and the M9 is on the first FF digi M ever - a huge leap in itself - and really the starting point for the M platform in the new era. I suspect the M10 will bring far greater versatility and utility to the M and bring it much more in line with what working PJs will need from a camera. The only problem remains price. $14k for two bodies is tough, esp as finances are so tight for many PJs Its the need for a second body that really hammers the camera as a prospect unless it is there to back up a SLR (which kinda defeats the ability to travel genuinely light and tight).

 

[nobbylon]

An M9 is NOT a quarter of the size of an equivalent Dslr.
regards john

 

[emraphoto]

Does Leica offer a 'pro service' membership comparable to Nikon Pro Service or Canon Pro Service? Friends of mine who are members of one or the other have been mailed out loaner cameras/lenses when their gear had to be sent in for repair.

I imagine that if Leica did offer such a program that more pros would be inclined to use M9s in the field (if they knew they could mail out a camera for repair and have a loaner shipped to them while they waited).

leica's pro service does not come close to that provided by Canon or Nikon. Canon's is nothing short of amazing. there are reasons not often considered contributing to their industry dominance.