user237428934
User deletion pending
Today I received the new LFI Magazine and the new "beauty" is on the front cover. The way it's photographed it doesn't even look so bad.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Not a very good attempt. Ugly.
LeicaFoReVer
Addicted to Rangefinders
I believe the new fuji is much much more sexier than this new generation space age looking M9 
robklurfield
eclipse
Jaap, I know they've partnered on design/engineering, etc. I meant, maybe Porsche should include an M9t as an accessory with each Speedster.
Or, perhaps, a specially badged camera as IWC did way back when they were Porsche Design's OEM or as Ferrari and Girard Perregaux did. Or, the current Bentley/Breitling partnership. Maybe an Porsche crest on the top plate? (Will cloisonne enamel even work with titanium??? probably not?) Not my personal taste, but people who buy trailer queen cars also buy showcase-bound cameras at premium prices.
Not in my budget anyway, so my opinion is of little import here.
If Porsche's strength is in engineering and design where price is not the primary objective AND Volkswagen's is doing the same thing to a limited price point, maybe VW engineers could show Leica how to ramp up production and lower the cost of making of M9's so that poor little old me could afford one without having to sell a kidney. In the meantime, I love my M8 and M2.
Or, perhaps, a specially badged camera as IWC did way back when they were Porsche Design's OEM or as Ferrari and Girard Perregaux did. Or, the current Bentley/Breitling partnership. Maybe an Porsche crest on the top plate? (Will cloisonne enamel even work with titanium??? probably not?) Not my personal taste, but people who buy trailer queen cars also buy showcase-bound cameras at premium prices.
Not in my budget anyway, so my opinion is of little import here.
If Porsche's strength is in engineering and design where price is not the primary objective AND Volkswagen's is doing the same thing to a limited price point, maybe VW engineers could show Leica how to ramp up production and lower the cost of making of M9's so that poor little old me could afford one without having to sell a kidney. In the meantime, I love my M8 and M2.
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CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
Jay, no one slapped your child here.
I retain the right to be offended. I remain offended.
And, however "incredibly wrong" i may be about the finances, the fact is, IF Leica has relied upon special editions since the 1930s, it has not been sufficient to keep them out of financial difficulties. Taking another course might be wise. Of course, to the fanboys and apologists, whatever they do is proper/correct/right/godly. You're entitled to your devotion. Doesn't bother me.
I do disagree with your assertion, though. Leica's customer base was NOT built and maintained because of special editions. It's built on the reputations and images of HC-B, Koudelka, Erwitt, et al. No one here is a Leica devotee because they admire the Sultan of Brunei or the anonymous retired gentleman in Tokyo with a full display case. If you buy Leica because it's unattainable for the masses, you're a pretentious poser. None of the photographers responsible for the books in my library would ever shoot this camera. The 'legend' was built by working, published, and exhibited photographers.
Regarding your (erroneous) pop psychology analysis that i'm "angry that other people can spend more money" than i can.... Well, that's just a typical response, i suppose. 'If you can't afford it, you don't understand it.' Right? Ridiculous. As if it mattered, i've owned Leica in the past. Four different bodies, i believe. And, myriad lenses, including three of the new ASPHs. The money isn't the issue. I don't disparage the S2. Nor Hasselblad H. Or whatever. But, the money, IN CONTEXT, is a part of this discussion. It's relevant. But, whatever. Buy this camera. PLEASE. Support the company so that they can work on my R-solution. I will thank you in advance. But, if i see you on the street with this thing, i will act the child and mock you.
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JayGannon
Well-known
Ok I retain my right to find your offense crazy and very immature for someone to be offended by a company producing a product that has no effect on your life.
I am not a Leica fanatic, the majority of my cameras are Nikons actually, I was debating a point of business not a point of fanaticism. If Leica was bad business it wouldnt be here, it has been mismanaged but people have seen business potential in it otherwise it would be here, Business 101.
At no point did I say they rely on special editions, I said they have produced special editions since the 19030's.What you and others seem to think is that this edition has somehow taken away from development of other models, it hasn't, development on others models will have plodded along as usual while this is going on, its like saying that the Gold plated M4 took away from the development of the M5.. its not logical in a businessplace.
And again you fail to understand that special editions have nothing to do with user camera development, Leica makes limited editions for collectors and VIP's not users, and yes their reputation as quality limited edition manufacturers has built their limited edition marketplace. And these people buy their 22k dollar M9T's exactly because of the Sultan of Brunei and gold plated Barnacks.
Quite seperate from their user development and userbase who have no interest in special editions, they are a userbase built on the works of actual photographers and people who use Leica cameras everyday. They are two seperate and distinct markets with very very little overlap other than people who complain about things in some misguided knowledge that special editions has somehow detracted from the development of a quality user camera.
I use cameras not collect them so why would I buy a camera that is not pitched at me in any way. Its pitched at collectors. And if you think money is a factor is buying a collectors item your way off the market, investment percentages and prestige are what win in that game.
If I erred in my pop psych I apologise but you ahve to admit that is the root of 90% of peoples issues with Leica new and old.
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hteasley
Pupil
I think folks are remembering last year and the M9, where Leica clearly jumped up a notch in innovation and tech. And this year, Leica appears to have gone back to their old formula of trading on past glory for collectors. One year of backsliding does not a pattern make, but one year of digital success doesn't, either. I think folks want to see signs that Leica is not going to stop upping their game and remaining relevant. This year did not deliver that message.
According to their profitability, they are again relevant.
furcafe
Veteran
Well @ least they did introduce/test a new tech feature (LED framelines) in this special edition, unlike the others that simply had different cosmetics/styling (the only exception I can think of being the M6J, which had the high mag. VF).
JayGannon
Well-known
Dont they kinda want to have their cake and eat it then...
Peopl are saying they want the old Leica back, but;
8 Leica M Film cameras in 56 years (old leica) = 1 camera every 7 years
Or including digital:
10 Leica M cameras in 56 years = 1 camera every 5.6 years.
And now people want a new camera every year? Which is it?
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Fine, Jay, but what do you really think?
aizan
Veteran
so...is the x2 going to have an optical viewfinder with LED framelines? cuz that would kick ass.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I can believe it, maybe it was inspired by an old VW design...
VW Thing, 1974 by kura-grill, on Flickr
That's an insult to the Thing.
JayGannon
Well-known
I think its a collectors camera, I hope that Leica put the 10 million or so dollars profit into developing even better cameras, film or digital or ideally both! Then I think I might buy one, probably second hand as I am like that, and go out and shoot photos with it so I can pay my bills and hopefull eat something nicer than ramen in the forseeable future...
flyalf
Well-known
Really a great looking camera. Hope this is the outlook for the M10.
I find the negative reception in this and other fora hard to understand :bang:. I was under the impression that I am a broing old f*rt, so what does this tell about those faulting the new look?
I find the negative reception in this and other fora hard to understand :bang:. I was under the impression that I am a broing old f*rt, so what does this tell about those faulting the new look?
Jack Conrad
Well-known
I think the M9T is very good looking, but important to keep in mind it's primarily a design exercise. They brought in an experienced designer, Walter de'Silva, from Audi in Ingolstadt, a VW subsidiary. So design is the main effort, not technology; a showcase. This to me is the disappointing part.
Mr De'Silva had a tough job here, don't you think, trying to apply some kind of design elements to the exterior of the elegant, simple M body without being able to change the basic "package". So the design is like icing on a cake, slathered onto the exterior.
The exception to that is the Leica logo. Liking car badges, Mr De'Silva thought it important to display the Leica logo prominently... and in particular in geometric alignment with the lens centerline. But the frameline illumination window was in the way... He asked the engineers if there could be a solution to this problem. They came up with the internal illumination LED for this reason.
Mr De'Silva had a tough job here, don't you think, trying to apply some kind of design elements to the exterior of the elegant, simple M body without being able to change the basic "package". So the design is like icing on a cake, slathered onto the exterior.
The exception to that is the Leica logo. Liking car badges, Mr De'Silva thought it important to display the Leica logo prominently... and in particular in geometric alignment with the lens centerline. But the frameline illumination window was in the way... He asked the engineers if there could be a solution to this problem. They came up with the internal illumination LED for this reason.
Well, unfortunately, there are no LED framelines, just LED illuminated standard frameline mask. A missed opportunity for technical advancement, perhaps, but then this is after all just a design exercise. In that photo with the M9T boxed, the other cameras at right are other concept candidates for the exercise.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Actually, the M9 should have been presented this Photokina, but Leica gave it to us as as soon as they could. This is like you have been given a cookie warm from the oven and are complaining you didn't get a second one soon enough, instead of munching it.
