M9P sensor fixed by MAXMAX - big problem!

[Sonnar Brian]

Note that Kolarivision uses a cover glass that is very close to the original in terms of transmission. MAXMAX uses a different glass with much higher IR transmission. Kolarivision will not service the M9P and M Monochrom due to the difference in the cement used to hold the original cover glass to the sensor.

At this point- MAXMAX is the only company that services the M9P and M Monochrom of the three I know of in the US. I'm not sure Leica would undertake remapping a modified sensor, it is far outside of the normal range. Will be interesting to see what they do. Depending on the non-uniformity curve, this could be fixed in post processing by measuring the degree of non-uniformity and applying it to the two halves.

 

[GMOG]

To be fair, MaxMax did correct the initial problem with streaking in my D700 without fuss. It was when confronted with the battery grip issue that things fell apart. They couldn't believe that they had caused the problem and didn't want to hear about it. They (Dan, I assume) did tell me to send it back, but not without reluctance, and only after arguing with me about terminology nonsense.

The situation with luuca's M9Ps makes me wonder if MaxMax was aware that their service would create the reported problem. If so, why wouldn't they inform potential clients of this fact upfront?

 

[jszokoli]

Is it possible that the corrosion repair shop accidentally put a sensor from one body into a different camera? That would mean the calibration data in the body wouldn't match the electrical output from its sensor.

If that's what's happened, it's the repair shop's fault, but could probably be fixed by a trip to the Leica factory.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The correction is done off the sensor, and if the sensors are swapped you would expect this type of issue. You might innocently confirm that the sensors were removed from the bodies and them advance this theory with Maxmax.

Joe

 

[Neist]

Does the original M9 have this issue, or only the M9P?

Why is it some of these sensor replacements by Kolari, Red Dot...etc. Go perfectly fine.. but one like this from MaxMax has issues?

In theory, if the sensor glass is merely being replaced (and not the sensor itself), then shouldn't the two halves of the sensor remain in the original location, thus not need mapping since no differing alignment exists?

Unless diffraction of the new glass is causing this issue, if the new glass is thicker or thinner then the stock?

Trying to understand why the issue appears only ‘sometimes’, and not ‘always’?

 

[Neist]

This is exactly what I was thinking. The correction is done off the sensor, and if the sensors are swapped you would expect this type of issue. You might innocently confirm that the sensors were removed from the bodies and them advance this theory with Maxmax.

Joe

This is a very sound theory to what could trigger a remapping?
And would also explain why the issue is not seen on Red Dot or Kolari, since both replace the ‘glass’ only, not ‘sensor and glass’.

Did you ask for a sensor corrosion repair, or a sensor replacement?
If you asked for sensor corrosion repair, and not a replacement... and they replaced the sensor as a means of fixing the corrosion with no way of flashing the camera to fix alignments.... then its clear where the issue lay.

In theory, if merely the glass was replaced, you shouldn't be seeing this, unless some form of diffraction is causing the stitch line to appear. Since the stitch line is often dead center (where diffraction is at its lowest) it seems more went on here then simply replacing the sensor glass...

 

[Dan]

<<"If the stitching line is really a problem...">>

If ? :bang:

 

[Miles.]

Thanks for posting about this. I hope it ends well!

 

[Darthfeeble]

Thank you for this, I was looking into having them convert my X Pro 1 to mono, I think I'll avoid them. Matters not if the problem is as he said, he knew that it would or could happen and should have warned you. The time to throw the onus on you is before, not after the fact.

 

[luuca]

thanks to everyone!!!

about sensor swapping: very good theory, I can ask to Dan, it could be a possibility.
sure I will not send the cameras back to him...

obviously I asked them only to change the corroded glass, and they confirmed to me they only do that and don't touch the sensor.

but I can't imagine why the sensor needs remapping if it worked well until the glass replacement.

all the discussion can be resumed in this point:
he says the problem was anterior to his job and I say not.

I asked him to find a solution, he answered he can't do anything, and probably he's right about it.

<<"If the stitching line is really a problem...">>

If ? :bang:

this is exactly the behavior that made me upset...
😡

 

[luuca]

and what if they "only" remounted the sensors upsidedown???
is it possible?
this would explain the sensor stiching issue, because the firmware in this case would amplify the difference...

I'm sorry for multiple posts, I'm thinking and writing at the same time 🙄

 

[Freakscene]

and what if they "only" remounted the sensors upsidedown???
is it possible?
this would explain the sensor stiching issue, because the firmware in this case would amplify the difference...

I'm sorry for multiple posts, I'm thinking and writing at the same time 🙄

The M9 sensor cannot be reinstalled upside down.

The repair has either caused a problem with the connections to the sensor, the sensor itself, or the changed coverglass has sufficiently different characteristics to have disrupted the sensor mapping.

Marty

 

[luuca]

ok, thanks

 

[leicapixie]

I think let's wait to hear from Leica!
Phone credit card company.
The repair is not satisfactory.
It's a useless job.
I used to service high tech watches and time pieces..
You ought to have been warned!

I have an Olympus Digital, way smaller than ASPC that has,
in it's menu "Mapping" feature!
i have never tied it out! Never!
Now I know what it's for..

 

[shawn]

Do you have a lens that you *know* was spot on at infinity focus? Maybe put the camera on a tripod and check how sharp infinity is? If you trust the RF you could do the same up close.

The swapped sensors thought is a good one. But I'm also wondering if they even removed the original sensor and reinstalled the same one it is very likely shimmed in the body. If the shim positions were changed that might have changed the sensors position slightly, maybe that is enough to throw off the mapping too?

Shawn

 

[Freakscene]

Do you have a lens that you *know* was spot on at infinity focus? Maybe put the camera on a tripod and check how sharp infinity is? If you trust the RF you could do the same up close.

The swapped sensors thought is a good one. But I'm also wondering if they even removed the original sensor and reinstalled the same one it is very likely shimmed in the body. If the shim positions were changed that might have changed the sensors position slightly, maybe that is enough to throw off the mapping too?

The M9 sensor is glued in place in its mount and the mount is screwed to the camera frame. There are no shims. It is possible but unlikely that the frame is bent, but this would not cause the colour shift or the sensor mapping imbalance.

Marty

 

[luuca]

I think let's wait to hear from Leica!
Phone credit card company.
The repair is not satisfactory.
It's a useless job.
I used to service high tech watches and time pieces..
You ought to have been warned!

I have an Olympus Digital, way smaller than ASPC that has,
in it's menu "Mapping" feature!
i have never tied it out! Never!
Now I know what it's for..

leica just answered me, they are waiting for the technicians response.
let's wait.

 

[luuca]

what Dan just answered to me about switching sensors:

No, I just do one camera at a time. I have seen these sensors fail where 1/2 is black and 1/2 takes a picture because it is basically 2 separate sensors side by side. Perhaps what happened is that while your coverglass was oxidizing, something else was changing electronically in the sensor. You may not have seen it because the oxidized, cloudy glass hid the problem. Now that the sensor has clear glass in front of the sensor, you can see the flaw in the sensor. Like I said before, I only changed the glass. I don't have access to the firmware and I didn't touch *anything else*.

in the meantime I opened a dispute with the card company

 

[jawarden]

I’d be refusing payment too if a repair left my equipment useless like this. $3000 should result in a fixed camera, not an invitation to take the camera elsewhere to fix its brand new problems.

 

[luuca]

I told him there's plenty of images on my pc that can proof that the problem wasn't there before his work... he continues to say that I didn't notice the defect :rolleeyes:
yes, in 10 years I never noticed it...

 

[raid]

what Dan just answered to me about switching sensors:

in the meantime I opened a dispute with the card company

This move was necessary to do, Luuca.