Major Apple Laptop Design Flaw

[johannielscom]

Won't ever buy a Macbook again with stuff like this going down really. I'm perfectly fine without one anyway, I'm at home all the time, never work anywhere else anymore.

Linux! There is very respectable photo software for Linux nowadays.

If only DxO Photolab 3.0 or 4.0 would be available on Linux, I'd make the switch instantly!

Awesome software, very good to convert negative scans to positives without any Negative Lab plugin etc... But it needs Mac or Windows...

 

[Corran]

I'd take my money elsewhere.

THIS. Sorry guys but Apple products have been garbage for years, with horrible design flaws and an abominable repair system that is treading the line of straight SCAM. Just look up some of the investigative reporting on Apple Store "repair" where customers are quoted thousands for repair to replace all kinds of components but the problem is a $10 cable that needs to be replaced internally, and other such nonsense.

And Apple is leading the charge against the "Right to Repair" movement. This is anti-consumer and no one should support these practices.

This doesn't even scratch the surface. There's also the human rights issues with their manufacture despite charging outrageous prices and the mountains of e-waste produced by their products and the "replace don't fix" mentality.

But then we'd have to use Windows... a fate worse than this! 😉

Give me a break. Windows is a simple to use OS and has no major issues. Any problems arising on a Windows PC is 98% of the time an issue with 3rd-party drivers, since they are a much more open platform with millions of devices and components. And most of the time from what I've seen, folks like to complain about their $350 big-box store special not "working" well because it has bargain components in it and mountains of bloatware installed from the PC company - nothing to do with the OS. Also Apple products are much more prone to various kinds of security threats because they ignored those issues for years, since simply put no one developed viruses and other things for the OS when they had almost no marketshare.

And any kind of Apple superiority with graphic arts use cases died years ago with Power PC and specially-produced acceleration cards that were designed for those specific applications. Modern-day Apple computers are just normal PC components with OSX installed and a 50% markup for the "privilege."

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

But then we'd have to use Windows... a fate worse than this! 😉

Some Windows computers have the same problem. I have a Microsoft Surface Pro 5 tablet, which is glued together like the Macbook and cannot be taken apart to replace the battery; it'll eventually suffer the same fate. Actually any tablet from any maker has that problem, none of them are made to be serviced.

The Surface Pro is different than most tablets in that it is a real full-powered computer, like a laptop, that runs a desktop/laptop operating system (mine has Windows 10 Pro)... so it's more like the MacBook than a tablet like an iPad.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Yup, once Apple started using Intel chips, the playing field was equalized and now the only reason to own a Mac is name cachet and a few programs that can be used on an emulator. Windoze used to be a pain, but the days of Win95 and 98 are over.
If Windoze really bothers you, get a Thinkpad, stick in a big SSD, and run a Linux distro with long term future support. If you like Lightroom, run Darktable (you can do that on Windows as well) it indexes libraries exactly the same way, all you have to do is learn the icons for the hundreds of tools available.
And you don't have to pay for the software.
I did an entire bachelor's degree in photojournalism using a decade-old Thinkpad running Linux, and using GIMP, UFRAW, a couple of NLVIs, a perfectly fine WYSIWYG graphical web design editor, and I didn't have any problems.

Phil Forrest

 

[splitimageview]

We could bash Apple about unrelated issues (and I do; used to be a hardware developer for the Apple market) but lithium batteries can cause problems in all sorts of products.

Such as the Ryobi lithium battery (to power a leaf blower) that exploded into a fireball at my place last month in the middle of the night. It was only pure luck that prevented the entire building from burning down.

We now store all those type of batteries securely.

 

[Peter Jennings]

Only time this happened to me was with an LG laptop. Never on a Mac.

p.s. Those who rail vehemently against Apple are even more insufferable than Apple fanboys.

 

[Freakscene]

My (issued by work and I must use it) Surface Pro exploded in my office in November 2020.

This has nothing to do with Apple specifically. It is just lithium batteries and current computer manufacturing.

Marty

 

[Solinar]

We could bash Apple about unrelated issues (and I do; used to be a hardware developer for the Apple market) but lithium batteries can cause problems in all sorts of products.

Such as the Ryobi lithium battery (to power a leaf blower) that exploded into a fireball at my place last month in the middle of the night.

That's quite a graphic image. I keep an E-bike in my apartment. Was the lithium ion battery on the charger when it exploded?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I'm used to lithium battery packs with microcontrollers that monitor the battery and provide feedback to the charging circuit.

Do the batteries in question have this circuit? Is the circuit Failing and the battery being overcharged? Or are the batteries breaking down internally?
Sounds like a bad design. I can see the travel industry barring all carry-ons with Lithium batteries the first time an exploding battery pack brings down and airliner.

 

[splitimageview]

That's quite a graphic image. I keep an E-bike in my apartment. Was the lithium ion battery on the charger when it exploded?

No, it was sitting on a shelf...we are building a house south of Austin and we're temporarily living in a steel building/warehouse on the property while the house is being constructed...an explosion woke us up about 3am, I scrambled to the back of the building only somewhat awake, and was able to grab the battery and toss it into a tub of water outside. We had to open both garage doors and turn on all the fans for about an hour to blow out the smoke.

There was quite an acrid smell of burnt plastic for a couple of days...

 

[Ko.Fe.]

So it just a giant iPhone/iPad. From same Seagull #382 factory.

Here are two leagues on it.

I'm using old iPad mostly on the toilet. It is really old (toilet was replaced already), but holding charge well for several discharges. And if ain't, it goes for the charge at bedroom. This is optimum use for this device.

But if you are Starbucks seater (paying big money for some crap to be able to seat for hours to feel cool with your Apple), you are pooped without the plug.

On a serous note, by the time I need battery replacement, OEM battery cost arm and leg, while third party not expensive ones are made on same Seagull #382 factory, but on fourth shift from parts which failed at first three official shifts.

 

[Corran]

I can see the travel industry barring all carry-ons with Lithium batteries the first time an exploding battery pack brings down and airliner.

So, no phones, laptops, (digital) cameras, many watches, etc. on airliners? And no one with a pacemaker can fly. Never going to happen.

Not sure if you currently fly but lithium batteries are not allowed in checked baggage (air pressure changes can cause issues), and in carry-on bags they must generally be under 100 watt-hours (some allowances up to 160) and must be installed in the device OR carried in some kind of protective case so that any terminals are not exposed.

Anyway, even larger explosions of lithium batteries would not equal a plane exploding. Chemical burns and other injuries, yes, but it's unlikely even a huge battery would be making holes in a plane.

 

[charjohncarter]

We have had a few house fires in my town with LI batteries starting to burn from shooters. What about LI batteries in general. Didn't the 777 have a problem? I even worry about charging my DSLR battery. Tome Cuidado.

 

[Godfrey]

I've been using Apple laptops with built-in, non-user-serviceable batteries very heavily for a decade or more. Quite a few of them, simultaneously (needed for my work when I was still working, since I was writing documentation and needed the machines to use for demonstrating and exercising the software I was documenting). Not one has ever shown this battery fault.

My 2001 series, first generation, iPod is still going strong too. The charge capacity is down by about half, but it still charges up and works fine.

My 2014 (or so) first gen Apple Watch did have this battery problem occur. I just had a new battery installed, $80, and it's back to working perfectly.

I know it happens, the evidence is there, but what isn't clear to me is why some people seem to experience it frequently and other people never see it. Now my Apple Watch failure might give a clue: I didn't use it for a very long time, just left it on its charging pad, and then I was less than regular about how I kept it charged, or not. All my other machines are always charged up overnight and then used all day, unconnected to power for the duration. Perhaps that difference in power cycling is a key to it.

I dunno, I'll let a couple of friends back in engineering know and see what they have to say about it.

regards Li-Ion batteries in general: I have a lot of devices that use them. In general, they've been far, far more reliable than the NiMH battery devices I've had. Not a one of my Li-Ion devices other than the Apple Watch has ever had a single problem. I have no concerns about using these batteries as a result.

G

 

[Rob-F]

Sorry about your bad luck, Tim. Did I read correctly it was a 2008/2009 that blew up? I have a 2009 Macbook running Snow Leopard that is doing well; better, in fact than my 2013 Macbook Pro is doing right now. The latter has problems being online not seen in the earlier machine. But the only power problems with either, so far, have been in the charging system. The 2013 Macbook came with a charger cable that stuck straight out rather than lying alongside the edge of the computer, resulting in wear and damage to the cord. And the fitting that carries the LED got very hot. So the Apple store sold me a replacement with the more conventional right-angle connector; but that one requires an adapter to connect to the computer. Its charging behavior is inconsistent. It will charge the computer to 100%, but then the green light that shows full charge, after coming on, may go out--or it may not. It might stay on for a while and then go out. Or the computer may drop to 64% and the light doesn't come on; but later it does come on and charge. I think it's a bad connection between the magnetic connector and the computer. And with this computer lately I have to do a restart every time I turn around to get it to connect to websites. Otherwise it says, "The website cannot be found." The same website that my 2009 iMac can find just fine!

I had to replace the charger for the 2009 laptop, too. The new charger developed a trick of lighting the amber charging light, but not the green light that indicates full charge. Tonight, the green light is working correctly.

I don't know. I like my Macs. At least I've never had one go dead in the 12 years I've been using Macs.

 

[PKR]

That sucks... mine is certainly bulging at times... I wonder what makes them finally explode?

Just guessing ..

An internal short in the battery. Nothing external (on the circuit board).

We had a $6k Apple workstation in the studio tethered to a Phase One back, fitted to a Sinar. The monitor cost $2,700. In the first week there were 3 dead pixels. It wasn't mine or I would have raised hell. By week 3, there were 6 dead pixels.

John,
If your laptop is bulging, it's likely the battery expanding under duress. Deal with the problem ASAP. It's a serious issue. Don't allow your child to be around that device. The batteries can really explode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbUP0sGQT8

my 2 cents

pkr

 

[PKR]

Some Windows computers have the same problem. I have a Microsoft Surface Pro 5 tablet, which is glued together like the Macbook and cannot be taken apart to replace the battery; its eventually suffer the same fate. Actually any tablet from any maker has that problem, none of them are made to be serviced.


The Surface Pro is different that most tablets in that it is a real full-powered computer, like a laptop, that runs a desktop/laptop operating system (mine has Windows 10 Pro)...so its is more like the Macbook than a tablet like an iPad.

Not all. I'm on a hp tablet now. I can pull the back off and access the battery and memory socket. The battery doesn't come out, it's soldered in place. But, it's very easy to access and replace.

 

[RichC]

Reasonably common for lithium batteries to fail this way as they age. It is also very dangerous, as a battery in this state can burst into flames or even explode without warning! At the very least, store the laptop so it can't set the house on fire!

Manufacturers - in Europe anyway - consider this is a serious fault and their responsibility to fix urgently free of charge, even if the warranty's expired. I'd phone an Apple Store ASAP! Had this happen recently to a Samsung phone outside of its warranty a couple of years back, and Samsung couldn't take my phone off me fast enough! Came back like new and didn't cost a bean!

Devices bursting into a fireball isn't a good look for manufacturers, so I'd expect Apple to bend over backwards to fix your laptop for free... well, they would here in the UK!

 

[wolves3012]

Not being a worshipper, I'm going against the grain with defence but I have to say Apple isn't alone in this issue. Unfortunately, LiPo batteries are potentially dangerous if mis-used, defective or poor quality.


I use a lot of LiPos in RC modelling, where the cells are not protected by built-in circuitry and a steel case. Protection relies on the external circuitry and the user. One of the main risks is that a LiPo's capacity depends on temperature (and falls at lower temperatures). The greatest danger is from an over-charged battery, so if you charge it in a warm place and then put it somewhere cold it becomes over-charged and dangerous. My suggestion would be to avoid that. If you store it in a cold place, charge it in a cold place or don't charge it fully. Any swollen battery should be put somewhere safe, like a metal bucket or sand bucket outdoors and made safe ASAP.


Their lifespan is also reduced by the length of time spent at high or full charge and they'll last far better if not routinely charged over 90%. So those of you that charge your devices to 100% overnight are reducing battery-life. Wherever possible, I don't charge devices over 90% unless I absolutely must have 100% capacity and then I only do it as late as possible. Any device that doesn't see regular use is best stored at about half-charge, for minimum degradation.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Samsung Galaxy Note 7-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7

The one that burst into flames on an airliner. That one, Samsung discontinued the product after the incident.

The problem might be related to the thin size of the case and speed of the components. While running- things probably get hotter than a larger laptop equipped with fans. The batteries in the thin notepads probably experience more intense thermal cycles. My laptops have been left plugged in for years at a time. You would think there would be some studies of this. The battery packs from my 1999 Micron Trek 2 just keep working. The computer was $2500. It was well-engineered. The Panasonic Toughbooks are well engineered, I use mostly CF-52 and CF-53 computers, never was one for a light-weight computer. The Panasonic Toughbooks use caddies for the disks. I keep multiple disks for the computers, and use Macrium Reflect to do stand-alone backup of the drives. I used a stand-alone image on this computer -an HP I7- to bring it back to life, used mostly for web-surfing, when WIN10 Bricked it doing an update.