Major Apple Laptop Design Flaw

[santino]

There is no reason to produce devices with permanenty build in batteries other than to rip off customers. Apple is pretty good at that... their OS is good but so is Linux and Windows (with a little of work). I left Apple after they switched to Intel and rendered all of my PowerPc hardware virtually useless.

 

[Godfrey]

There is no reason to produce devices with permanenty build in batteries other than to rip off customers. Apple is pretty good at that... their OS is good but so is Linux and Windows (with a little of work). I left Apple after they switched to Intel and rendered all of my PowerPc hardware virtually useless.

... And you're not bitter. LOL! This is somewhat like the animosity I hear from long-standing Canon users who still complain bitterly about the switch from the FL/FD lens mount to the EOS lens mount. 😉

There are specific reasons for the move to permanently built-in batteries by most manufacturers, Apple included. Amongst others:

• Warranty claim analysis indicates very clearly that power system failures due to damaged battery holder/connection devices is one of the most frequent incident types.
• Removable battery power connection devices consume a good deal of small-device internal space that can be better used for other purposes, including larger, longer lasting batteries.
• Removable battery components incur a number of additional costs, both in initial construction and delivery of the devices and in post-sales inventory requirements, never mind the additional environmental impacts of more components to deal with.

Permanently building the batteries into the assembly has resulted in a significant reduction in devices' size, unit failures, and warranty claims, as well as a generally longer lifespan in use. Longer lifespan with fewer failures, at lower costs overall, and with less/fewer parts to track and dispose of is considered a net gain for the users, the manufacturer, and the environment.

Yes, it's a PITA when something *does* break—and things *do* break occasionally. That's one of the downsides of this design/construction technique. By and large, by the statistics, the gains seem to be winning over the downsides at this point in time.... which never mitigates the personal PITA.

Statistics do not care about individual incidents. 🙂

G

 

[santino]

I wish you all the best with your apple devices, really. My „bitterness“ does not relate to batteries but to a really expensive G5 Mac which was outdated a year after I bought it. It did not break, it was just a switch in technology. Unlike FD and EF mounts, computers need software. When the Eos 650 came out you still could have used your T90. I had a brick which was mot able to play youtube videos because of old browsers, unsupported graphics etc.

Permanently build in batteries cut costs for the manufacturer and generate future profit. Lots of people throw away perfectly fine devices except for damaged batteries (service is too expensive - you can open your iphone by yourself but beware). The logical next step is to buy the newest fancy thing on the market. Throwaway society. And I don‘t care for size. Removable batteries can be smallish.

I prefer sustainability.

 

[Bill Clark]

G,

I wonder why the power tool users don’t seem to have the issues you mention. When they work there is dust, drywall, wood and other materials flying around. Plus a lot of vibration like when using a recpo saw. Some info from Family Handyman:

https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/cordless-tools-buyers-guide/

you can even buy a battery operated impact driver!

For my old Macbook I’d have an extra battery charged up just in case I needed it during an event. Pretty hard to do when the battery can’t be changed. But the battery on my wife’s new iPad lasts quite a long time.

 

[Tim Gray]

Ugh this sucks. I think it’s a problem with the battery tech in general, but yeah, my last two MacBook batteries bulged. They never exploded, nor were they eligible for a recall. I went with a Mac mini this time around.

 

[Rob-F]

So a nice thing about my imac is it doesn't use a battery. Cool.

 

[Rob-F]

Got the battery out, and now it's outside the house. Had to grind off the heads of a few of the bottom case screws because the expanded battery had wedged them so tight. The case bent back into shape pretty well, so I think I'll be getting a replacement battery and see if I can get it fired up again, maybe not to use, but to at least get the data off the hard drive.

Best,
-Tim

That's the battery? Looks like a freezer ice pack!

 

[Godfrey]

G,

I wonder why the power tool users don’t seem to have the issues you mention. ...

Um, power tools are simple devices with few if any integrated circuits that do one and only one thing. Good quality battery operated power tools are designed to be handled roughly, batteries slapped in and out often, etc. They're not computers, that have vastly more complicated requirements, design, and use characteristics.

And power tools with interchangeable battery packs DO fail on regular occasion. Ask anyone who's living depends upon them why they usually have two of each critical tool in the truck. 😉

G

 

[Godfrey]

I wish you all the best with your apple devices, really. My „bitterness“ does not relate to batteries but to a really expensive G5 Mac which was outdated a year after I bought it. It did not break, it was just a switch in technology. Unlike FD and EF mounts, computers need software. When the Eos 650 came out you still could have used your T90. I had a brick which was mot able to play youtube videos because of old browsers, unsupported graphics etc.

Permanently build in batteries cut costs for the manufacturer and generate future profit. Lots of people throw away perfectly fine devices except for damaged batteries (service is too expensive - you can open your iphone by yourself but beware). The logical next step is to buy the newest fancy thing on the market. Throwaway society. And I don‘t care for size. Removable batteries can be smallish.

I prefer sustainability.

My Apple devices have worked reliably and without failure for multiple times the average life span of most other computer device brands.

The timeline of the G5 and Mac OS that supported it goes like this:

• The last version of the Apple G5 based computers was discontinued on August 7, 2006. That was the last of the third generation of these systems, which were introduced in 2003.
• The last version of Mac OS releases that would run on the G5: v10.5.8, released August 5, 2009. If you need this, contact Apple and they may be able to supply it for you today.

Before I bought my first Intel-based Apple system, I was running YouTube and all the same other stuff that Intel-based systems were running. The Intel-based systems ran these things better, of course, because the whole reason for the processor change was to take advantage of Intel's more aggressive CPU development cycles and improve the power/performance vs price envelope of the systems, providing users with more power at lower cost.

You seem to have bought into the G5 late in the cycle, but you should have been able to use your G5 well in the 20-teens. I know I used my personal G5 until 2012, when I replaced it with a new Mac mini (which I still have and which is still capable of running the latest macOS).

I was involved in the planning and development of that processor switch from 1999 until 2004, when I left the company and did other things for the next seven years. I went back to Apple in 2011 and worked in technical documentation of the systems and development tools until I retired in 2016.

And of course none of that has anything to do with the battery technology, whether the batteries are user replaceable, etc. Completely different subject.

G

 

[jarski]

As some have commented, unfortunately most pc laptop makers have followed Apple’s lead and are building batteries permanently attached. It sucks as am often using laptop as a desktop pc, permanent connected to power and no battery requirement at all.

 

[Rob-F]

As some have commented, unfortunately most pc laptop makers have followed Apple’s lead and are building batteries permanently attached. It sucks as am often using laptop as a desktop pc, permanent connected to power and no battery requirement at all.

One advantage you have is that you won't lose data if there is a power failure. The battery will save the day.

 

[merciless49]

I actually fixed a few bulging batteries on 2014-2015 Macbook Pro's. One of them was a 15-inch MBP from late 2014, the batteries bulged to the point that the track pad wasn't working correctly. I ended up consulting the guides from iFixIt and ordered their supplies. About an hour and $120 (new battery and replacement bottom cover) later, everything worked as new. I even took the time to clean out the dust out of the logics board and fans, while cleaning and re-applying the thermal paste on the CPU/GPU heatsinks. Still running like a champ!

My point is, these aren't non-swappable batteries in the truest sense. Just needs some proper solvents and care to get them switched out. To me, that's worth doing once the battery cycles get up there or battery swell is apparent.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Well after a very frustrating weekend dealing with Apple on this, the final resolution from them is basically, 'Too Bad this happened, it's not our fault, you're more than welcome to bring it to an Authorized Apple Repair Center and pay them to replace the battery and any other damaged parts.' They said that I should not plug in the computer with the battery expanded (no kidding) and that since I was not going to plug it in again, there was no danger of it catching fire, so therefore Apple is not liable for any of it.

All that aside, I did obtain one valuable bit of information from the service department. The non-replaceable batteries in Apple laptops actually have a life cycle by design. Apple is not keen on sharing this information, but I was able to get him to share with me this link:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585

It lists most of Apple's laptop products and how many recharging cycles their batteries can safely receive. And how to check your laptop to see how many cycles it has already received. This might help some of us from having to deal with exploded/expanded batteries, as with this information we can replace the batteries before disaster happens.

Best,
-Tim

 

[nightfly]

I've used Apple laptops since the 90's and never experienced this problem. But obviously it happens. I've had a number of screens replaced with Applecare for free over the years but otherwise they are very reliable machines. And now with SSDs they don't slow down and become unusable eventually like earlier models did.

I've seen a lot of people raving lately about the new Mac Mini's with the Apple M1 chips in them. If you don't need the portability of a laptop, they seem like a pretty good value (and no battery to catch fire).

I use my 2017 Macbook Pro (and several earilier generations of this machine), plugged in at my desk for the most part but appreciate the portability when I need it. However for $800 a Mac Mini does look attractive.

 

[BillBingham2]

Tim, be very careful with that battery. A few years back, my son’s new iPhone 5 dropped out of his pocket when he was on a new to us ridding mower. Next pass he hit it and it went flying. My wife and I were watching and she went over to the smoldering sliced body and stepped on it. It immediately burst into large flames. Being once burst twice shy type she pulled her foot back and shook the stuck burning part off her melted shoe bottom.

Found out that some part of our at atmosphere seems to combine with parts of the battery to burn very hot and fast.

It should also been said on two of my sons old MacBooks that had removable batteries bulged like this. This was after the Macs were out of warranty.

I put this back to QC on batteries that are build in such a large volume that even six sigma would yield potential issues. Remember the smoking battery on the big plain a few years ago...

B2 (;->

 

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Bill, Thanks for the heads up. As Wolves suggested, I put the battery in a bucket of salt water in the back yard. Where it will stay for the next week, then out with the trash.

I started adding up all the Apple products that have had battery issues in our household. It's pretty alarming. My wife's iPhone 4S had an expanding battery and when she brought it to the Apple store, they couldn't replace it fast enough (maybe the iPhone batteries burst into flame more often than the laptop batteries do). I had a first generation Apple Watch battery go rogue and burn my arm. The folks at the Apple Store were non-plussed when I brought it in(still under warranty), but when word got further up the chain, they quickly replaced it. Had an iPod battery blow up (which I was able to replace on my own), a MacBook Pro battery blow up (which I was able to replace on my own), and now this MacBook Air battery blow up (which I hope I will be able to replace on my own).

I was really surprised reading the page I linked to above. Apple knows these batteries are going to go bad, they just don't want anyone to talk about it, and they hope you'll buy a new computer from them (upgrade) before your previous computer from them explodes.

Pretty disheartening.

Best,
-Tim

 

[BillBingham2]

I've got an old MacBook Pro of my son (he trashed the hinge, problem showed up as it went out of warrantee) that is plenty fast enough for me for another couple of years. Now I worry about using it as a desktop with the battery in it.

Especially moving out of town a mile or two makes me more concerned (fire department is low in town, that's what I get moving to the lower right armpit of Iowa).

B2 (;-O

 

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Bill, You can check the status on your battery by following the link I posted above. It will tell you how many charging cycles your current laptop battery has had, and how many it is designed to handle before there are issues.

It turns out the battery that exploded in my MacBook Air is only designed to go thru 300 charging cycles (which is pathetic). All the newer MacBook Pro models, since like 2015, are designed to go thru 1000 charging cycles, so unless your son's MacBook Pro was charged really often, you'll probably be okay, but again, look at that link and it tells you how to see how many charging cycles your battery has gone thru.

Best,
-Tim

PS: Just installed the NewerTech NuPower battery in my MacBook Air, after bending it back into shape, and so far, so good. It is held together at a few spots with black gaffer's tape, but I think that just adds character.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

It isn't just Apple and it isn't just laptops and phones:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/success/electric-car-vehicle-battery-fires/index.html

Now I'm wondering, if I sell all the battery-powered junk that I own, maybe I could afford a black paint M4… .