Ranchu
Veteran
I wanted to suggest that you are in 'her house', and she's responsible for the kids there. Your feelings are not really important to her, just taking care of the kids. Why would they be?
I guess this facility is not a public place right? Perhaps they can tell you not to photograph.
jarski
Veteran
dont think fathers have anything or anyone to explain themselves. they shoot photos of their kids and period. I'd continue whatever debate this would lead to.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Get used to it. It's what happens when a society is whipped into a state of fear by endless media stories about crime and sexual predators.
I'm a middle-aged man. While kids are fun to shoot because they are unselfconscious and natural hams, I try to avoid shooting them. The unfortunate assumption is that if you're an older male shooting pix of children, you're a pedophile.
I was rousted by the police at a Hmong New Year's festival, even though I wasn't shooting children, because the cops apparently thought my using a camera in a public place meant I was a pervert. Needless to say, this kind of thing can make street shooting an unnerving experience, even though I still do it.
I'm a middle-aged man. While kids are fun to shoot because they are unselfconscious and natural hams, I try to avoid shooting them. The unfortunate assumption is that if you're an older male shooting pix of children, you're a pedophile.
I was rousted by the police at a Hmong New Year's festival, even though I wasn't shooting children, because the cops apparently thought my using a camera in a public place meant I was a pervert. Needless to say, this kind of thing can make street shooting an unnerving experience, even though I still do it.
rkm
Well-known
Thanks everyone for your posts. I've been contemplating the situation some more. The venue is a place of business and they are free to set whatever rules they choose. They could easily not allow any photography (and I would abide with this), and so in a way they are trying to take a moderate position.
My problem with what happened is that the criticism I was given was so unspecific. I didn't know if the complaint was coming from the manager, the swimming coach, or another parent? I didn't know specifically what their issue was. That left me with the knowledge that I was under suspicion for some kind of unacceptable behavior, and no means of addressing the situation, allaying someone's fears, or establishing exactly what is acceptable.
And so, I'm left in a position where I can no longer enjoy my Thursdays with my son the way I'd like to, and even if I never take another photo I feel like I'm viewed as suspicious.
And so moving forward, when I encounter this kind of vague accusation in any context, I have a choice. Either I can shrink back and live my life less fully all to make some stranger feel more comfortable, or I can take life by the horns and do my best to ignore them in the knowledge of my own good character.
The problem with all this PC behavior is that sometimes the worst things do happen. The media makes the worst things seem infinitely more common and likely than they are. And so in the end we all sacrifice a lot, living in fear that the worst will happen, living our lives less fully with the notion that we are protecting ourselves or others.
I'm generally a peace keeper, but the older I get the less I am inclined to care about what other people think. I think I am one step closer to becoming either an artist or a grumpy old man.
Cheers
Rohan
My problem with what happened is that the criticism I was given was so unspecific. I didn't know if the complaint was coming from the manager, the swimming coach, or another parent? I didn't know specifically what their issue was. That left me with the knowledge that I was under suspicion for some kind of unacceptable behavior, and no means of addressing the situation, allaying someone's fears, or establishing exactly what is acceptable.
And so, I'm left in a position where I can no longer enjoy my Thursdays with my son the way I'd like to, and even if I never take another photo I feel like I'm viewed as suspicious.
And so moving forward, when I encounter this kind of vague accusation in any context, I have a choice. Either I can shrink back and live my life less fully all to make some stranger feel more comfortable, or I can take life by the horns and do my best to ignore them in the knowledge of my own good character.
The problem with all this PC behavior is that sometimes the worst things do happen. The media makes the worst things seem infinitely more common and likely than they are. And so in the end we all sacrifice a lot, living in fear that the worst will happen, living our lives less fully with the notion that we are protecting ourselves or others.
I'm generally a peace keeper, but the older I get the less I am inclined to care about what other people think. I think I am one step closer to becoming either an artist or a grumpy old man.
Cheers
Rohan
denizg7
Well-known
just use an iphone next time pal:dance:
rkm
Well-known
I can take solace in philosophy...
"Other people's heads are too wretched a place for true happiness to have its seat" - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Only that which is both damning and true should be allowed to shatter our esteem" - Alain De Botten
"Other people's heads are too wretched a place for true happiness to have its seat" - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Only that which is both damning and true should be allowed to shatter our esteem" - Alain De Botten
daveleo
what?
Maybe I missed this point, but . . . did you go back to wherever and talk to the person on his / her off time and tell that person all of this that is on your mind that you are sharing here?
I am a bit upset that your son (? I forgot) is missing out on his parent taking pictures of his sports activities. Doesn't that suck ? Isn't that wrong ?>
I am a bit upset that your son (? I forgot) is missing out on his parent taking pictures of his sports activities. Doesn't that suck ? Isn't that wrong ?>
rkm
Well-known
This was only yesterday. I may have another conversation. Or I may just move on.
tekst
Established
I too am in Australia, and unfortunately feel the same way. I don't get a second look if I'm out shooting with her nearby, where as if I am by myself everyone looks at me as a highly suspicious character. These days I try to dress and act like a tourist lol. If im framing up a wide angle shot of a building and I can see that a child is going to walk into the scene, I will put the camera down to show the parents that I'm not going to shoot a photo of their child. If it was adults walking into frame I wouldn't care. Sad, but that's the way of the world today, and I can understand the parents concerns so I try to respect that as best as I can.
Addy101
Well-known
Talk to her. I think she has a right to know what it did to you. And I can't imagine her not wanting you to take some pictures of your son. Maybe there is some middleground to be found.
Gumby
Veteran
I'd say it slightly differently: she has a NEED to know what it did to you. Whether you continue to go there or not, she should know the impact of her arbitrary and capricious rule. Hopefully if discussed calmly she will hear what you are saying.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I'm 70, I have 3 children, they all took swimming lessons, the girls dance, the girls and boy did sports, and all are in their 40s now. I never ever had anyone say anything to me while I took over a thousand worthless shots of them (and others). Out of the 1000+ I have maybe 3 good shots, but they like the other 997. I hope this witch hunt isn't like when they ran Packwood from office for patting a rear end 30 years prior. Are you responsible for past (and not illegal, at the time) offenses, like Packwood? I hope not, or I have a lot of (as Desi Arnaz said) 'a lot of esplaining to do.'
Haigh
Gary Haigh
This may be a bit tangential but when I am out photographing anything at all I feel "legitimate" if my wife is with me. I think her presence legitimizes me in the eyes of others. Irrational? Maybe.
Addy101
Well-known
Being European, i had to google this Packwood guy. I think this comparison with Packwood is inappropriate. Where Packwood was groping women, Rohan only was taking pictures of his own son - huge difference!
Anyway, wether the manager needs to know, or has a right to know, talk to her, Rohan!
The Expanding Man
Member
I've worked a little in the child-protection field.
Children are statistically most at risk from sexual abuse in the home from someone they are related to (step-fathers being one of the most common groups of perpetrators).
I suspect somewhere down the line the manager has had to deal with complaints from parents and is taking the easy way out by seeking to restrain your activities, rather than point out to the complainer that they are being irrational and unreasonable.
For this reason, I suspect you will have difficulties ever winning this battle.
Children are statistically most at risk from sexual abuse in the home from someone they are related to (step-fathers being one of the most common groups of perpetrators).
I suspect somewhere down the line the manager has had to deal with complaints from parents and is taking the easy way out by seeking to restrain your activities, rather than point out to the complainer that they are being irrational and unreasonable.
For this reason, I suspect you will have difficulties ever winning this battle.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Not irrational at all -- I had to do some photos for a magazine story recently, and some of them involved photographing playgrounds with children. I specifically asked my wife to accompany me to 'legitimize' me as well. Even as we were walking around a soccer field with kids playing, I made sure that my wife was by my side. I didn't want to convey this potentially negative perception of 'middle aged guy, camera with big lens, photographing children'. Even if it was only to make myself feel more comfortable, I was glad she came along, and nobody approached us.
daveleo
what?
I feel the same way. I am asked to photograph my nieces playing volleyball and softball. I use a long lens and usually stand apart from the cheering parents. As the parents don't know who I am, they can get to staring at me, which is bothersome. So I always start out next to my wife or her family, let people see me and drift away from there. Often a parent photographer will wander over next to me and shoot the same angle. Everybody gets cool with that.
If people know who you are, more or less, they leave you alone (in my limited experiences).
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I normally reckon on three stages:
1 Start out smiling and polite
2 If they can't handle that, tell 'em it's their problem
3 Walk away
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
And adults are most at risk from the gutter press and their readers, the hard of thinking.
Cheers,
R.