male photographers talk about gear because they can't talk about emotions

tunalegs said:
I'm still wondering about the OP's definition of emotionally supportive, if they just mean people saying "good job" and "you're doing great" or what? I feel like that sort of thing disappeared a lot of places when social media took over, and the need to always be "witty" and glib and sarcastic poisoned conversation. Sites like twitter and tumblr killed a lot of art forums, since the potential to reach much larger audiences outweighed the value of more intimate, helpful, feedback from a smaller circle of people who shared common interests. Now years later I see a lot of people complaining they have nobody to talk to, even when they have ten of thousands of people following their accounts...
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By emotional support, I don't mean saying congratulatory things like that. I had a basic idea of its definition, but it looks like doctors define it in different ways:

http://peersforprogress.org/pfp_blog/what-do-we-mean-by-emotional-support/
There is little consensus on how to define or operationalize emotional support. Some researchers have defined emotional support to include the provision of care, empathy, love and trust (Langford et al., 1996) while others have emphasized expressions of encouragement, active listening, reflection, and reassurance (Dale, Williams & Bowyer, 2012). Moreover, some researchers have characterized emotional support as reciprocal interactions of “mutual obligation” while others have characterized it as solely a subjective perception of feeling accepted loved and respected (Langford et al., 1996). We are thereby left wondering: does emotional support include care and love? Or is it based on encouragement and listening? Is it related to a sense of community? Or is it based on subjective perception?
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For examples, I'd point to all of those self-help articles like:

 
aizan said:
By emotional support, I don't mean saying congratulatory things like that. I had a basic idea of its definition, but it looks like doctors define it in different ways:

http://peersforprogress.org/pfp_blog/what-do-we-mean-by-emotional-support/


For examples, I'd point to all of those self-help articles like:

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The author of the learned article quoted is over analysing. To a significant extent it is based on trust. Trust that the other person "has your back" and is empathetic. It is one thing to show concern, give advice give positive affirmations. It is entirely another thing to mean it. What's the old saying "Its all about sincerity. And once you can fake it you have it made" Usually we learn to work out if someone is sincere or just "going through the motions" for the sake of appearance.

But as to the specific issue of support on this forum, I think there is support here at least as much as I can reasonably expect from a bunch of folk who have not met each other and who are united only by a sense of common interest in a hobby. For example I recently revealed that I have had some health problems and one member unexpectedly contacted me by private message to wish me well. I did not expect that but I knew him to be a nice guy and his expression of concern to be genuine and so I valued it. But for the most part I have to say that coming to RFF is therapy in and of itself for - me at least. Nothing else is needed.
 
Emotional support is often in the eye of the beholder. For some, it's mutual understanding and encouragement. For others, it is the expression of empathy through verbal reflection. For others, it is something else.

For emotional support in general, I tend to offer a mix of the above until I hit something that sticks. For emotional support and critique in photography, it depends on what someone is asking for. Apart from the gear threads, there are often threads like, 'I'm in a slump' or 'I can't get motivated to shoot' or 'I want to do X but I don't know how'. These are, by nature, emotion-based topics which can be handled as such.

As an example, a recent thread here was about the culling of decades of work. My response was to say something along the lines of, 'that must have been very difficult but ultimately rewarding for you', and then shared my perspective. Honestly, I can't imagine getting rid of my old work as so much of it is documentation of my life, something I highly value. But not everyone shares that value, so I reflected back the sentiments expressed, and tried to put myself in the shoes of a fellow photographer who wanted a clear slate and to retain only what was important.
 
I often wonder if self-help articles have the same effect on people as DIY repairs do on cameras. And what's the equivalent of selling the resulting mess on ebay?


Regards, David
 
peterm1 said:
For example I recently revealed that I have had some health problems and one member unexpectedly contacted me by private message to wish me well. I did not expect that but I knew him to be a nice guy and his expression of concern to be genuine and so I valued it. But for the most part I have to say that coming to RFF is therapy in and of itself for - me at least. Nothing else is needed.
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I hope you're doing better than before, Peter. Sometimes, looking at a screen and typing on a keyboard, it's important to remember that there are actual people on the other end, with all that entails. :)
 
David Hughes said:
I often wonder if self-help articles have the same effect on people as DIY repairs do on cameras. And what's the equivalent of selling the resulting mess on ebay?


Regards, David
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=Putting a tie and a positive face up during a job interview.
Or during a speed or online dating.
 
The article liked to isn't the worst I've read about its subject but I don't see a very strong connection to the OPs contention.

I'm happy to be getting my emotional support from my friends and family rather than from any on line group. It's not that I dislike or mistrust any of you but, honestly, we don't really know each other.

I've occasionally asked for and got help with creative struggles here but I am not expecting the same kind of intimacy or bond that I have with my friends and family.

If I have a question about photography--whether it's mechanical or artistic--this is where I will ask. My friends and family like my photography well enough but they don't care about and can't answer those questions.

If I have a question about, for example, mortality or need to talk about what might be missing in my life I will and have ask(ed) the people I love in my day to day life.

Last, my photography is largely about choosing to express some things visually rather than verbally. I could or wanted to talk/write about those things, my hobby would be novel writing. Or poetry.

Rob
 
That piece isn't bad. I'm not sure about the gear theory, but I will say that photographers online by and large constitute a toxically masculine hobbyist community. The "anger, irritability, and aggressiveness" the writer cites is the main reason I don't really post here anymore, and this thread is like a case study illustrating it!

Feminists are excellent at pointing out how weak most men are when it comes to being asked to examine their behavior, and maybe change it for the greater good. The defensiveness on display here is telling. There's a good reason this forum (like almost every photography forum) is 98% male—it's hugely unwelcoming to the vast majority of women photographers. I'm not sure where the next Arbus, Mann, Goldin, Woodman, and Maier are lurking, but it sure isn't here.
 
I can certainly see and feel
why so few Women are on Rangefinder
Sometimes it can be fun
Other times not

I thought this Thread was more an amusing read than the actual OP 's suggested article...
That article I saw as somewhat comedic, lets stir the pot ...
and for some, some got stirred ! ;)
 
mabelsound said:
Feminists are excellent at pointing out how weak most men are when it comes to being asked to examine their behavior, and maybe change it for the greater good. The defensiveness on display here is telling.
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Was this topic ever about feminism?

If it were, I might encourage you to go tell some feminists that transwomen are real women, and feminism is failing them. The defensiveness you may receive should be very educational.

But I think the real topic here is right in the title, doesn't have anything to do with feminism. Obviously men are bad at emotions, so the stereotype goes. But is that the truth? The author of the article cherry picks a handful of experiences (which according to some on this forum is valid, whereas any of us doing the same thing, is not) - but the truth, as ever, is more nuanced than an old, tired, and toxic cliche.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sexual-personalities/201504/are-women-more-emotional-men


There are similar ideas about "men talk more than women" or "women talk more than men" plenty of studies done "proving" either. Whichever side you want to push, for whatever reason (talk is good, talk is bad, etc.) you can find some study to back it up.


Anyways, apologies for being so defensive. :)
 
tunalegs said:
Was this topic ever about feminism?

If it were, I might encourage you to go tell some feminists that transwomen are real women, and feminism is failing them. The defensiveness you may receive should be very educational.
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Some members were crapping on feminists in the the thread.

I don't think TERFs represent mainstream feminism in 2019; the feminists I know, which is almost everyone in my life, are fully on board with trans rights and regard trans women as women.
 
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