Mamiya 7ii v 503cw

[gravityassault]

Hi everyone,

I'm brand new to MF and in fact I'm in the process of deciding which one to purchase. I'm partial to the 6x7 format and went to a local Toronto dealer this afternoon to handle a bit of their pre-owned gear and was told something that gave me pause.

The guy helping me said that Hasselblad was to MF what Leica was to 35mm, and that the 503cw was a better camera than the 7ii.

I'm not trying to start a debate, but being new to the format I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. The pros to buying a 503 is that I can use a film back as well as a digital back...but then again I don't really want to shoot digital.

Even still, if film ever becomes cost prohibitive then I've already got the system to handle digital. But I really like the rangefinder and portability components of the 7ii.

Your thoughts are as always most appreciated. Have a great evening, I'm looking to hearing from everyone.

Best,

Chris

 

[coelacanth]

In my opinion, "Hasselblad was to MF what Leica was to 35mm" statement is really from "mechanical perfection" and "THE camera to drool" kind of point of view. Of course both Hassy and Leica have got great lenses, but so has Mamiya 7/7II.

In real use, Hassy and Mamiya 7 are totally different beasts and there are pros and cons.

Hassy's lens is lovely, extremely well built modular based system that you can replace, duplicate as you go. You can easily change films, survice one magazine while you use another, etc. It's heavy and could be slow in use, huge shutter noise and shock but great for studio, control environment portraits and such. And of course SLR system works better for close focus subjects.

Mamiya 7/7II is a rangefinder camera that's really meant to be used in the field. It's super quick to use, very light, dead silent shutter and easy to use if you are used to 35mm RF cameras. I have no problem switching back and forth between Mamiya 7 and Leica M in one shoot out. The lens is super sharp, I think everyone who actually has the lens really love them although it's less known name compared to Curl Zeiss or Leica. It's got the limitation that all RF systems have like longer minimum focus, not-perfect parallax correction, etc.

I've got both 500C/M and Mamiya 7, but 500C/M stays at home most of time for table top shots and such, and Mamiya 7 gets out to the field way more. It's really your preferences and shooting style that should decide which camera is suited for you. Forget "Hassy is better camera" or "Hassy is MF Leica" statements that your store clark gave you.

 

[Finder]

I have Mamiya 6s. They are great cameras. As a rangefinder, they are better than a Hasselblad, which is not a rangefinder. Like coelacanth said, they are two different beasts. How do you want to shot?

Both are well-built, professional cameras. They are designed with two different philosophies. Personally, I prefer the way the Japanese design cameras.

 

[davidtth]

it really depend on whats your shooting style

if you are casual photog, mamiya 7 is the suitable camera for easy carry and handling

if you are landscape photog, hassy would be better choice as the lens works great with landscape photography, but one thing to be mind you may need tripod when using it most of time, hack its heavy compare to Mamiya

i owned both before i'd go for hassy 🙂

 

[gravityassault]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks so much guys, I hear what you're saying about the difference in function and roles of the 7ii and the 503cw. I really enjoy rangefinder photography and I like the idea of being able to use the 7ii as I do my M6.

The only drawback now seems to be the lens speed. I'm interested in a 65mm f/4, which seems a bit slow, but the images I've seen on the forum so far seem to indicate that folks don't have any issues using them in all kinds of lighting conditions.

In order to make the purchase a reality I'm selling my D2X and Nikon 17-35 AFS ED, which I'll start attempting to do now.

Thanks very much again for everything, it is most appreciated.

Best,

Chris

 

[coelacanth]

As myself and others said, these two are totally different cameras. Almost opposite ends of MF diagram. If you aren't sure which one to go, probably you aren't sure what shooting you'd enjoy with MF. Mamiya 7 is more of extension of 35mm photography. You can carry on the same techniques and methods and get super high res negatives/positives. Hassy is more of "miniature" LF in use. You can enjoy compact and light setup of MF where you'd bring huge/heavy LF. Of course there are some ovewraps between the two.

You can try either renting both or buy one of them (cheaper M7 or 500 series?), use for a month or two and decide one. As long as you buy from private sale, you'll hardly lose any value by reselling. That might be the best way to find out which system you'll like better for your use.

 

[dacookieman]

Hi, I use my Hasselblad more for landscapes, portraits and closeups of flowers etc. I find the Hasselblad is more suited for close focus as mentioned and for portraits, f2.8 really takes the cake. Most of my closeups and landscapes are done on tripod.

Otherwise for street, I've always felt that a RF medium format camera like the Mamiya 7 or a TLR better suited for discreet shooting.

I have once or more, scared a passer-by while shooting the 'blad. The poor fellow jumped back in shock, jaws agape.

 

[Riverman]

I love shooting with my Mamiya 6. In situations where I can slow down a bit, I reach for 4x5.

 

[trev2401]

Do think about the lenses too, particularly with the Mamiya 7 system. The lenses that shine, in my opinion, are the 43mm wide and the 65 (38mm-ish). I know most landscape shooters that shoot mainly with the 43mm, and i personally love the 65mm for snapshots on the go.

The hassy's a whole different system altogether, with a whole lot more possibilities. Horses for courses as they say.

 

[sper]

Absolutely a SLR vs Rangefinder discussion. I just sold my Hassy kit for a Mamiya 7. Medium format is a field camera for me and the M7 is king for the field.

I always felt limited by vibration with the hassy when shooting handheld. Below 125th you see shake. I'm loving 1/30th of a second these days.

 

[gravityassault]

Thanks Again

Thanks Again

Once again, thank you to the forum, your responses are terrific. I'm leaning very heavily toward the 7ii as I really enjoy the rangefinder system, the quiet shutter and the lack of vibration. For my shooting I think it will suit me just right, I'm not a studio or landscape photographer.

Also, the ability to add the 35mm pano insert is also really appealing.

Thanks again, speak soon.

Best,

Chris

 

[Neare]

I wouldn't emphasize that the hassy is a landscape shooter at heart. It is 6x6, a format that is really open to any kinds of shooting situations. Plus the fact that waist down viewers are very special. The hassy would let you see those shots in ways that your M6 would not.

That said, 6x7 is another format that I love the look of. It is a big frame and shooting MF produces those really full on detailed shots. 7ii has wonderful lenses too, a great camera.

But they are completely different breeds of camera.

As for shooting a hassy at slow shutter speeds I (therefore most other people too) can handle 1/30 handheld absolutely fine. Anything below I use mirror lock up and can keep one steady down to 1/8 (many times 1/4).
The hassy will also give you the luxury of interchangeable backs and the many accessories.

Both cameras have their own pro's and con's. I would try both before you make a decision. Or if you don't want to use digital anyhow, forget the 503 and just get a 500cm. It will do just the same things, you would have saved money and then perhaps you could buy both cameras 😉

 

[ChrisN]

At a crowded car club display I was walking around with the Hassy with 50mm Distagon lens and the large compendium lens shade. Lots of other people with DSLRs. Many people looked at my outfit then stood back out of the way to let me get my shots. I don't think that would happen with the Mamiya! 🙂

Re the alleged vibration: check the Hasselblad Penny Trick demo on Youtube. I've had good exposures, hand held, down to 1/60 (80mm lens) with no problems.

 

[TareqPhoto]

I use Hasselblad, and just purchased Mamiya 7II[without lens yet], i love my Hasselblad, and for field or outdoor i will go with Mamiya, but for something else [portraits, indoors, studio....etc] Hasselblad wins my vote.

 

[rpsawin]

Please bear in mind that the photographer makes the gear perform to a far greater extent than the gear making the photographer perform. Both are geat systems and each have their strong points as well as their weaknesses.

You are also looking at a rf-vs-slr and 6x7-vs-6x6. FWIW I have an M7II and a Bronica SQb (similar to the Hassey) and use them both for landscapes, seascapes and industrial shooting. Other than format the choice of which system to use often comes down to speed and weight. You will be well served either way.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[KenR]

To echo Coelocanth - rent them. That's what I did (LensandRepro in NYC) and decided on the Mamiya. However, I bought the Mamiya 6 rather than the 7 because it is a bit smaller and lighter and my primary use is in the field as my hiking camera.

 

[Tegla]

Re the alleged vibration: check the Hasselblad Penny Trick demo on Youtube. I've had good exposures, hand held, down to 1/60 (80mm lens) with no problems.

Last weekend i was using my Mamiya 6 in the orthodox monastary. I used 1/15, 1/8, 1/4 hand held 😀 Try that with Hasselblad, even with few more coins to stabilize camera shake 😀.
I've used Hasselblad 500 but it is a too complicated compared to RF or TLR. On my Mamiya 6 and on my Rolleiflex 2.8 i can change films while i walk.

This is just my personal experience

 

[Neare]

Oh just another thought, have you taken a look at the new Bessa III? A RF that can shoot both 6x6 and 6x7. No interchangeable lenses unfortunately, but the one attached is a very good performer.

 

[ChrisN]

Last weekend i was using my Mamiya 6 in the orthodox monastary. I used 1/15, 1/8, 1/4 hand held 😀 Try that with Hasselblad, even with few more coins to stabilize camera shake 😀.
I've used Hasselblad 500 but it is a too complicated compared to RF or TLR. On my Mamiya 6 and on my Rolleiflex 2.8 i can change films while i walk.

This is just my personal experience

Change films while walking? That's nothing! With the Hassy I can shoot a few exposures with B&W, swap magazines for one with colour film for the next few shots, than swap back to B&W! While walking too!

But seriously, mirror slap really isn't much of an issue, and at the speeds you quoted most 😀 people will use a tripod (and mirror lockup) if available. I think what I really like about the Hassy is the waist-level viewfinder. It doesn't suit some people, but I love it. They are totally different cameras with different handling characteristics that probably make each better suited to a particular type of use. And for some people one will be perfect and the other uncomfortable. Both wonderful cameras capable of excellent results - take your pick!

 

[Tegla]

Change films while walking? That's nothing! With the Hassy I can shoot a few exposures with B&W, swap magazines for one with colour film for the next few shots, than swap back to B&W! While walking too!

And when you get all 24 shots, you need a big table to reload, while i'll keep walking and reloading 😀

But seriously, mirror slap really isn't much of an issue, and at the speeds you quoted most 😀 people will use a tripod (and mirror lockup) if available. I think what I really like about the Hassy is the waist-level viewfinder. It doesn't suit some people, but I love it.

Mirror slap is not an issue with leaf shutter SLR cameras like Hasselblad or Mamiya RB/RZ, because there is a cycle of exposing, mirror goes up, leafs open, leafs close, mirror goes down. So if there is any mirror slap it would not have any effect on the picture, as leafs are closed when mirror goes down. Because of this taking picture with MF SLR is like P&S digital, there is a noticeable lag, and with MF RF it is instant. More important is how you hold and support your camera. RF camera when used hand held is supported on three points, your hands and your head, and it is tight support. With WL finder SLR cameras that is not possible and everything below 1/60 is tricky. Mirror slap is a problem with focal plane shutter cameras. I had unusable photos taken with 1/125, at a sunny day with Pentacon Six.
Don't get me wrong. Hasselblad is superior camera with superior CZ lenses. I have used it, but i did not find it suitable for me. I'm weekend shooter, and 80% of my shots are family shots on family events 😉 Also for landscape work Mamiya RF is far more practical than Hasselblad because of size, weight and quality of wide lenses. This is not a point that Mamiya lenses are better than CZ, no way, but RF wides are always better than SLR wides. I can't make direct comparison between RF and SLR. It is more personal preference. But if i was pro, i would have them both.
Cheers