Mamiya Standard 23 vs Hasselblad 500 C/M

[RBruceCR]

Is there a basis for comparison? My Standard 23 has three backs, three lenses, one 90/3.5 one 65/6.3 and one 150/5.6, I can take pictures in three formats, 6 X 9, 6 X 4.5 and 6 X 6.

For a little more money I can buy another film back for the popular 6 X 7 format. It is a very involved camera. The results with modern film like Ektar are stunning and even with expired T-Max.

On the other hand the Hasselblad cameras came with very fine optics made by none other than Zeiss, it feels heavier and the operation is almost automatic, the ergonomics make it a better travel companion.

I'm thinking in buying a 500 C/M or a 501 C or C/M if I can justify the expense. But the question is more psychological should I be considering the Hasselblad or should I be exploring more the format?

 

[redisburning]

a hasselblad probably doesnt solve any problems for you because you didn't state any problems you wanted to solve.

they are very fine cameras, with good lenses. if that's all you want, why not?

 

[oftheherd]

a hasselblad probably doesnt solve any problems for you because you didn't state any problems you wanted to solve.

they are very fine cameras, with good lenses. if that's all you want, why not?

Probably as good as answer as you are going to get. Do you want it for something you can't do with the Mamiya, or is it GAS? I can recommend a good 12 step program. 😀

My experience with my Super Press 23 is that there is very little I can't do with it. Including the exact framing of SLR. But focusing backs do take more time to use. Zeiss lenses are good. I like my Mamiya lenses, but have never had a Hasselblad to check it against.

 

[Spanik]

Two very different systems. I have only the Standard 23 and so far used it with the 90mm. Think it is a very flexible and capable system but at times a bit "primitive".

I do understand that you want to change if looking for a travel companion. Then yes, it is a bit involved traveling with a complete Mamiya Press system. For that I'd like something more compact, lighter and some automatisms.

 

[Ansel]

Photography is not always about problem solving.... And the Hasselblad is one of the finest cameras out there. Pure photography. Everyone should own one at one point 🙂

 

[BillBingham2]

It's hard to change when things are going well. I think it's part of human nature, to wonder, is something else better than what you have?

For some 6x6 is limiting, others freeing. From what I see in your note, my guess with you it's not very freeing. 'Blad glass is wonderful, but so are lenses from Nikon, Fuji, and Mamiya.

You might try one of the Fuji Texas Lecia rangefinders or one of the newer folders.

While I enjoyed the few Hasselbads I've used over the years, they never really sparked my fancy. My guess is that there are Bronicas, Mamiyas and others out there that might be as good and a better bargain.

B2

 

[mfogiel]

The Mamiya is great for landscapes, and it gives you a larger negative to work from. You can also use it as a sort of view camera for close up shots, if you have the ground glass. It is a bit limiting for portraits, and in my opinion, not ideal as a carry around camera due to the bulk. To sum up: a great SLOW system, ideally suited for tripod work.
Hasselblad can be anything you want, slow or fast, is smaller and lighter, has better choice of lenses, and is going to outlive your Mamiya.
Sharpness wise, stopped down, Mamiya could even be sharper.
It is up to you to choose, but in your shoes, if you like this system, I would not substitute it with a Hasselblad, but save up some cash, and add one.

 

[RBruceCR]

Thank you all for your time and earnest opinion! I enjoyed reading so much! It's got to be another case of tropical-GAS and here these illnesses tend to be harder due to the scarcity of equipment!

There's one from a pro-photographer friend of mine that has a 501C with an A12 back, one 80/2.8 T*, one Distagon 40/4 (chrome with the flash synch in disrepair). It was used professionally without remorse, it has been recently overhauled locally and the main lens cleaned but the paint is faded on the WLV, body and back. So it's patina is not attractive any more but it is fairly inexpensive!

So, given the slowness of the market locally I have time to think in how to quench the tropical-GAS…and then there's KEH and eBay with samples that work well and look good on the pictures as well as might work well.

These are some pictures that I've made after putting a black patch over the Mamiya's lens bayonet release:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/14337716309/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/14337689619/in/photostream/

And in color:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/14437975528/

and a lucky error:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/14437753729/in/photostream/

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Perhaps I should explore more the medium before sinking in hard earned cash on this project.

 

[charjohncarter]

Oh yes, it is easy to forget something with the Mamiya. But I like the versatility of formats. I'm still partial to 2:3 so the 6x9 is my favorite.

 

[Sonny Boy Havidson]

he Hasselblad cameras came with very fine optics made by none other than Zeiss,

A friend of mine has been using his Super Press for decades and had the chance to compare his lenses lenses to the ones of an Hasselblad and according to him, the Mamiya ones were superior from resolution point of view. Whereas I think that the quality of a lens cannot be juged only by its resolution, it shows that Japan is not only an alternative when it comes to lenses.

 

[charjohncarter]

A friend of mine has been using his Super Press for decades and had the chance to compare his lenses lenses to the ones of an Hasselblad and according to him, the Mamiya ones were superior from resolution point of view. Whereas I think that the quality of a lens cannot be juged only by its resolution, it shows that Japan is not only an alternative when it comes to lenses.

I do think the build quality of the Hassy is better, but then they are generally newer than the Mamiyas. My only drawback with the Mamiya is the size and weight. The Hassy is (slightly) less convenient than the Rolleiflex, way better for convenience than the Mamiya.

 

[RBruceCR]

Outstanding conversation! Thanks for all the help. I am now pondering if I should bring the Mamiya with all the goodies to a trip that i have planned to Boston, for the annual reunion, on September! I am exercising now!

 

[BillBingham2]

I walked around Boston many times in the 80's and love it. History, people, sports, culture, perhaps the best city to go to college in anywhere in the world. A MF like your Standard would produce some great negatives/slides there. That and you iPhone 5 would be a great combo.

If the 'Blad is a great deal, pick her up and see how she feels. You can always resell her and odds are only loose 10% of your investment. Best case you can make money (I don't know the used market these days).

B2

 

[RBruceCR]

Thanks Bill: I am receiving my freshly overhauled, by non other than Harry Fleenor Rollei 35S, I'll be bringing my Minolta 600Si and I am considering bringing my Standard! Ill be paying overweight!

 

[RBruceCR]

And Bill I did pickup the Hassy, despite the compactness and exacting build feeling, it was heavier, albeit smaller than my Mamiya (dad's).

The Hassy's finish was marred by the acid sweat of the owner but the camera is fresh from overhaul, it was smelly of oil, which didn't add to the equation, as it is not a weapon for hunting, despite the fact that most of us are marksmen, plus that afternoon my lab-printer called to say, the Mamiya pictures are great!

I ordered a used copy of The Hasselblad Manual and I have enjoyed the reading very much!

So, I'm still on the prowl!

 

[x-ray]

No question the Hasselblad is the best of the two. It's a dream to use and there are to a of inexpensive lenses, backs and accessories. Everything is easy to get repaired if needed. You have a wide array of lenses from 40-500.

I'm a fan of 6x6 and use Hasselblad. I've owned and shot hundreds of rolls through a set of Pentax 6x7's and if you want 6x7 this is the direction I'd go. They handle like a large 35mm and have superb glass. I owned three that I used for aerials and other work that I wanted to hand hold and be more spontaneous that whT I could be with my Rollei SL66's. I used SL66's for nearly 30 years and lived them but felt they were at their best on a tripod or studio stand. They're a bit bigger than a Hasselblad but smaller than an RB67.
Give a Pentax 67 some thought. They're a real bargain.

 

[RBruceCR]

Thank you very much X-Ray, that's quite a feat shooting hundreds of pictures on medium format. Aerial photography seems quite interesting it involves the expense and risk of fixed wing airplanes. Did you use Ektachrome EIR and Kodak HIE for these pictures? What was your main subject for aerial photography?

Did you print yourself or did someone did your printing for you? How far did you expand your negatives? I like the vertical 6 X 4.5 CM for our calendars, for instance we blow up to 8" X 10".

Perhaps I am pursuing dad's dream camera, the camera that went to the moon (and stayed there, some 12 cameras in total), but it is going to be interesting how will this picture end. In the mean time I long to be carrying the Mamiya in my car to find the right opportunity and combination of f stop and speed, mentally!

As a matter of fact, I'm taking the Mamiya along for the drive tomorrow, it's loaded with Ektar and some 4, 6 X 6 frames to go! Today, despite the rainy season, we enjoyed a yellowish-red light in the early evening that made the Neo-colonial houses of Barrio Escalante look awesome, so well deserved for Ektar 100 and a Mamiya 65/6.3 at 1/60 wide open...

Will see!

P.S. Seeing your pictures makes me feel that I have a long way to travel. Of special note the series in the Neo-Nazi followers (which I thought it was an illegal activity in the US), it's reportage style. I enjoyed very much, the Post Office wooden building and of course the old Dodge Pickup truck, the Tatoo Art and canvas are awesome, the red door seems to be E-6 process that I never tire off despite having to develop in the USA, etc. There is so much to photograph!

 

[hamradio]

I don't have much experience around hasselblad systems, but have owned a Super 23 with 100/3.5 for a couple years.

It's a great camera, and gets used far more than my RZ67 does. I think the glass of the RZ (90/3.5) is better, but I've never run the two head-to-head. It seems far less flare prone and contrastier. However, I enjoy the rendering of the 100/3.5; the lower contrast has a nice look on Acros, and performs in a fairly pleasing manner in strong light.

The camera itself handles great for its size when equipped with the grip. This is why it gets used more than my RZ; it's pretty easy to handhold. True, it's easier to forget a step and make a mistake with this camera, but after shooting 4x5 press cameras for a little while now, the Super 23 seems downright easy and convenient to use. Rangefinder is also big and very bright. However, I don't think I'd ever want to travel with it. The vast majority of my usage with it is handheld, but only on shorter (couple mile) walks, or near my car. The main problem is: the damned thing will not fit comfortably in any bag I have. There's no nice flat surfaces, and it has so much sticking out all over the place that it is uncomfortable in the bags it actually does fit.

I almost took it on a month long trip with me, but decided against it, and I'm glad I did. Having a camera that large with me every day would have grown old really fast.

I also second the Pentax 67 recommendation. The 105/2.4 is a great lens, and the whole system can be gotten into for probably $500 (especially if you buy a yellowed lens and clear it up yourself). I'm tempted to dump my RZ for one. Really nice handling camera when fitted with the wood grip, though not as versatile format-wise as the Mamiya Press.

 

[RBruceCR]

Thanks HamRadio for your input!

I'm letting go an awesome looking 501CM albeit more expensive than my trip to Boston as planned! It went for at least $1,625!

I am taking my resurrected Mamiya Press to make architectural pictures if weather and work permits tomorrow evening, I need to have some old tile roofs with me before some developer decides to tear down these nice Neo-Colonial (even perhaps California style) homes in Barrio Escalante (former coffee plantations) in the outskirts of San Jose.

I took my bike (pedal) and the Mamiya in a back pack and can agree that there are so many protruding things that make the trip uncomfortable!

Do you use the ground glass focusing screen much? Does it make sense on a fixed focal plane camera like my Standard 23?

Can you recommend me cleaning myself my viewfinder? It doesn't seem as clear as I would like and the purplish rectangle is well somewhat faded? Have you considered a wide angle for the press such as a 50?

 

[hamradio]

I never owned a gg back for my Super 23; I was going to buy one, but always thought they cost quite a bit for what they are. Swapping between that back and a roll film holder would be a slight pain, as well (unless using cut film holders, which is what the gg back was designed for, to my understanding). I lost the desire to really mess with the tilt back of my camera after buying a 4x5 press camera, which is far more capable in the movements department than the Super 23 is. The only scenario I could see the gg back being useful on a Standard is if one really, really wanted to do closeup work with the camera. $80 or so is a bit much for only that ability, I think.

I've never opened up the finder on mine, so I can't comment on that. My rf probably isn't as nice as it could be, but it works and I didn't want to open that can of worms (especially needing a gg back to recalibrate the rf). I wanted to find a 50mm for my Press, but again, my 4x5 rig filled that need with an Angulon 90.