KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Anyone out there with expertise in working on these? I unearthed one from the closet the other day -- I knew I had it but thought it was high time to use it again (or maybe for the first time). Shutter was stuck, as I remembered. Finally got the shutter working again, but -- and this is the third time this has happened to me in a couple of weeks (all Mamiya products, interestingly), the aperture then seized up. In the case of the Super Deluxe, though, one of the leaves has shifted out of place, so the aperture is irregularly shaped, and won't open up farther than f5.6.
There is some information out there (including RFF) about getting at the shutter of these cameras, but really nothing about dealing with a messed up diaphragm. I've managed to remove the lens plate, and separate the lens from the plate, but that's as far as I dare go. I feel like I'm climbing Nanga Parbat or one of the other fearsome 8000 meter peaks -- there are great difficulties before I even get to the final approach. And I know getting aperture leaves back together is a real pain!
So -- some sort of step by step guidance to getting at the aperture mechanism would be great. I'm assuming coming at it from behind is easier than having to go via (and disassemble) the shutter.
Thanks in advance!
There is some information out there (including RFF) about getting at the shutter of these cameras, but really nothing about dealing with a messed up diaphragm. I've managed to remove the lens plate, and separate the lens from the plate, but that's as far as I dare go. I feel like I'm climbing Nanga Parbat or one of the other fearsome 8000 meter peaks -- there are great difficulties before I even get to the final approach. And I know getting aperture leaves back together is a real pain!
So -- some sort of step by step guidance to getting at the aperture mechanism would be great. I'm assuming coming at it from behind is easier than having to go via (and disassemble) the shutter.
Thanks in advance!
farlymac
PF McFarland
It's best to remove the lens assembly from the camera to work on the aperture. From the photos in this forum post, it appears that your lens is mounted on a panel, with four screws attaching it to the main body of the camera. You will need to peel back the front coverings to expose the screws (after removing the camera top and bottom).
From there, you will need a spanner to remove the rings holding the rear element/s, and the body of the lens to the panel. Then you should be able to access the screws holding the aperture blade retainer to the lens body.
But since you will have the camera torn down this much, you may as well begin by taking the shutter escapement and slow release mechanism out for a good cleaning. Believe me, you don't want to do the aperture job, just to have to go back in later to clean up the elements or shutter blades. And it's best not to do just half a job. It will work so much better after a good cleaning.
PF
From there, you will need a spanner to remove the rings holding the rear element/s, and the body of the lens to the panel. Then you should be able to access the screws holding the aperture blade retainer to the lens body.
But since you will have the camera torn down this much, you may as well begin by taking the shutter escapement and slow release mechanism out for a good cleaning. Believe me, you don't want to do the aperture job, just to have to go back in later to clean up the elements or shutter blades. And it's best not to do just half a job. It will work so much better after a good cleaning.
PF
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Hi Phil, that's correct. Elsewhere I had read that one needed to peel back the body covering on either side of the lens to get at the screws holding the lens plate on the camera body, and indeed that is the case. You have to remove both the top cover and bottom plate in order to remove the screws, though, since they both partially overlap the screws. (Not sure why Mamiya did that; it's a significant add-on to the task.)
Removing the bottom plate is a matter of just taking out the two screws at either end. The top cover is surprisingly easy also -- pin spanner removes the screw holding the advance lever in place; several washers underneath it. The rewind crank comes off the usual way (block the fork from turning and unscrew it), and there are two screws to remove underneath the crank. The cover then lifts right off -- there is a circular meter on/off switch on the back of the top cover that I thought would be a big problem, but it's permanently attached and does not interfere with anything.
Once you have removed the lens from the body by unscrewing the four screws (bottom left screw is slightly smaller than the other three), you have to remove it from the plate (4 more screws). Then, two more screws to remove the baffle around the rear lens group.
That's as far as I've gotten. Right around the rear lens tube are two slots that I'm hoping will remove the entire rear lens group from the shutter, and also give access to the aperture blade retainer.
What makes this job particularly difficult for me thus far is that there are two wires attaching the lens to the camera body -- they connect the meter to wipers on the lens rings that communicate aperture/speed settings. I do not own a soldering iron, and do not know how to use one. I am hoping these two wires are attached to the lens some other way, which can be detached easily. I don't see how I can possibly try and reset the aperture blades with the lens closely tethered to the camera body!
So that's why I'm trying to find out what lies ahead. I certainly can press on until I can't go further, and put things back together, but I'd hate to admit defeat.
I totally agree that as long as I'm in there, it makes sense to clean the shutter. Actually, I think the shutter is now working OK -- the aperture problem is an unintended and totally unexpected consequence of the flood cleaning of the shutter(naphtha and 99% isopropyl alcohol). If I can get the aperture squared away, then I think it's a relative breeze to come at the shutter from the front and clean the escapement -- though taking down a shutter to any extent makes me very nervous. First things first.
Removing the bottom plate is a matter of just taking out the two screws at either end. The top cover is surprisingly easy also -- pin spanner removes the screw holding the advance lever in place; several washers underneath it. The rewind crank comes off the usual way (block the fork from turning and unscrew it), and there are two screws to remove underneath the crank. The cover then lifts right off -- there is a circular meter on/off switch on the back of the top cover that I thought would be a big problem, but it's permanently attached and does not interfere with anything.
Once you have removed the lens from the body by unscrewing the four screws (bottom left screw is slightly smaller than the other three), you have to remove it from the plate (4 more screws). Then, two more screws to remove the baffle around the rear lens group.
That's as far as I've gotten. Right around the rear lens tube are two slots that I'm hoping will remove the entire rear lens group from the shutter, and also give access to the aperture blade retainer.
What makes this job particularly difficult for me thus far is that there are two wires attaching the lens to the camera body -- they connect the meter to wipers on the lens rings that communicate aperture/speed settings. I do not own a soldering iron, and do not know how to use one. I am hoping these two wires are attached to the lens some other way, which can be detached easily. I don't see how I can possibly try and reset the aperture blades with the lens closely tethered to the camera body!
So that's why I'm trying to find out what lies ahead. I certainly can press on until I can't go further, and put things back together, but I'd hate to admit defeat.
I totally agree that as long as I'm in there, it makes sense to clean the shutter. Actually, I think the shutter is now working OK -- the aperture problem is an unintended and totally unexpected consequence of the flood cleaning of the shutter(naphtha and 99% isopropyl alcohol). If I can get the aperture squared away, then I think it's a relative breeze to come at the shutter from the front and clean the escapement -- though taking down a shutter to any extent makes me very nervous. First things first.
milosdevino
Established
try this site http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=diaphragm
and this http://retinarescue.com/retina1a2ashutter2.html
the last one is not the same shutter but gives good advice on getting it all back together
whilst retaining your sanity.
Good luck
and this http://retinarescue.com/retina1a2ashutter2.html
the last one is not the same shutter but gives good advice on getting it all back together
whilst retaining your sanity.
Good luck
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Thanks for these -- hadn't seen Chris Sherlock's writeup. Oh my head....
farlymac
PF McFarland
Nick, you can get a nice small battery powered Weller brand iron and flux paste at the hardware stores, and pick up some thin silver solder at Radio Shack. It's only 15 watts, which is all you need on something like the fine wires in cameras. After you tin the tip of the iron (this is the most important thing with a new iron), you disconnect the wires from which ever end is most convenient by melting the solder where they are connected. When reattaching them, you likely will not even need to add any solder to the attachment pad. But use a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the wires, as they will become too hot to handle with bare fingers.
If soldering connections are corroded, then a bit of paste flux applied to them will usually fix that, and give you a clean spot to make an attachment. Clean the flux off with some Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA).
PF
If soldering connections are corroded, then a bit of paste flux applied to them will usually fix that, and give you a clean spot to make an attachment. Clean the flux off with some Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA).
PF
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Thanks, Phil, I'm sure I'm making more of this than necessary (though I'll have to look up how one tins the tip of a soldering iron!). I have distant memories of watching my father do soldering when I was a kid.
(Note to self -- how is it that the word is pronounced SAHdering rather than SOLdering?
farlymac
PF McFarland
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I don't know. Maybe it was invented by a Bostonian.
PF
So, not someone from Vuh-gini-er?
Frontman
Well-known
Any luck getting the camera back together? I did this job on a Super Deluxe last year, the shutter blades were gummy and sticky, and while I had them out, I decided to clean the aperture blades as well.
When tackling the wires, if they are long enough, or the tabs where the wires are soldered are too small, I will simply cut the wires in the middle, and then solder them back together, this is a bit easier that soldering the wires to the tabs.
You will probably find a loose screw or two was the cause of the aperture blade slipping. Use a little lacquer (nail polish or model paint) after tightening the screws so they don't loosen up again,
When tackling the wires, if they are long enough, or the tabs where the wires are soldered are too small, I will simply cut the wires in the middle, and then solder them back together, this is a bit easier that soldering the wires to the tabs.
You will probably find a loose screw or two was the cause of the aperture blade slipping. Use a little lacquer (nail polish or model paint) after tightening the screws so they don't loosen up again,