Mamiya7 w/pano adapter vs. Xpan

[ksah]

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone here has experience with the panoramic adapter for the Mamiya 7.

Basically, I would like to take advantage of shooting my last 100 or so rolls of Agfa Ultra 100 during an upcoming trip; and shoot panos. (you can't buy Ultra in 120 format.)

The problem is, I only have the 45mm lens for the xpan. Wide, but I'd like to shoot wider. The 30mm Xpan lens is not an alternative I'm seriously considering...

I am wondering if shooting with the mamiya7+pano adapter, with a 43 or 50 lens will not be a better and lighter alternative. One camera, several uses.

Also I believe the Mamiya7 43mm lens gives a 90 degree FOV, which is not as wide as the 30mm Xpan, but wider than the 45mm Xpan lens.

In conclusion - if my math is correct - I can shoot wider panos with a Mamiya7 +
43mm lens + pano adapter than with the Xpan+45mm lens. Am I correct? Has anyone here done this? Suggestions welcome. Thank you.

ks

 

[venchka]

I'm clueless. With the exception of Kodachrome, I don't see why you wouldn't just use the 43mm lens on the Mamiya 7 and crop to 24mm by 72mm ANYWHERE on the 6x7 original. I do that with my 45mm and Pentax 6x7. Sure, I wish I could be shooting 120 Kodachrome, but ANY 120 film is better, I think. As for which is wider, 43mm or 45mm? Come on. The 43mm lens can't be THAT much wider.

Good luck.

 

[Finder]

There is no significant difference between a 43mm and 45mm and they may even be closer than that as focal lengths are not precise. Also, where did you get the 90 degree number? Is that the angle of view for a 6x7 frame - it will not be the same for the pano frame as it is measured to the frame diagonal.

If you want a 6x7 camera and want to take the occasional pano, then the 7 is a good option. If you want to do mainly panos, then go with an Xpan. I have a Mamiya 6 MF with the pano adapter; it is not the same as using either my Widelux or Horseman panoramic cameras. Mostly because the viewfinder lines in the Mamiya are such a compromise.

The cameras are about the same weight, but the Xpan is smaller.

As far as Wayne's comment - shooting with a panoramic camera is not the same as shooting with a normal format and cropping down. I could easily shoot 6x12 with my view camera, but my Horseman is a very different beast. They are not equivalent.

 

[Todd.Hanz]

I have the pano adapter, it's a little fiddly but kinda cool to use 35mm on a med format camera.

I only have the 80mm for it though:

 

[drazin]

i have a mamiya 6 with the pano adapter. does anyone have a link to an instruction manual or anything? i dont know how to use it.

 

[Rayt]

When using the adapter does the entire 135 film get exposed including the sprockets? That would be kind of cool.

 

[boilerdoc2]

Just got a used pano kit. Now to shoot a few with the 43 and 80 lenses! Since my wife won't let me use 'my' Xpan i had to do something! Think I'll try some pano figure shots this weekend.
Steve

 

[athos]

For panos I use several of my 6x6s and 6x7s and even one 6x6, all without adapter. I just scan any 24mm high part of the film. I can then choose which 24mm of the 51-56mm of image I want. If I had an adapter, I'd sure use some of my ISO 25 Kodachrome living at 40 degrees below zero and call it a rainy day.

 

[Doug]

I think ks's desire to use up his Agfa 35mm film is a key element, eliminating the crop-from-120 technique. I agree that the 43 Mamiya and 45 XPan lenses will give very similar angle of view... But the XPan frame is only 65mm wide, whereas the Mamiya pano mask may be a few mm wider (or maybe not; the pano kit mask for my P67 has a 66mm opening).

If for your upcoming trip you plan to shoot only 35mm film, then either camera will do... and either has the flexibility to "go normal": You can remove the Mamiya pano adapter and load 120/220 film; with the XPan you can switch quickly to 24x36mm frame size in mid-roll. Further, the XPan is smaller. I see here a slight advantage for the XPan, but it depends on one's priorities.

 

[effeleven]

I like the pano adapter in the M7-II, but I personally find composing in the viewfinder a bit frustrating! The outline for the pano field of view is a small percentage of the viewfinders total area.

Just annoys me!

 

[drewbarb]

Having worked a bunch with both of theses cameras, I find the panoramic adapters for the Mamiya (and pretty much all 35mm adapters for MF) frustrating and silly. It's clumsy to use, and all you get is a much smaller frame. It's my experience that bigger is always better when talking about the quality of film images, both positive and negative. Why shoot 1/3 of the frame if you are going to carry that camera? And why carry that camera to shoot 35mm film? Besides, as another poster above points out, the 43mm for the Mamiya is nearly identical to the 45mm for the Xpan. The horizontal FOV for both of these lenses is somewhere around 82 degrees with a 65 to 67 mm wide frame. What's the point? If you're going to carry the Mamiya, shoot medium format film. If you want to shoot panos with your 35mm stock, I'd say you are much better served to stick with the Xpan.

 

[gdi]

Having worked a bunch with both of theses cameras, I find the panoramic adapters for the Mamiya (and pretty much all 35mm adapters for MF) frustrating and silly. It's clumsy to use, and all you get is a much smaller frame. It's my experience that bigger is always better when talking about the quality of film images, both positive and negative. Why shoot 1/3 of the frame if you are going to carry that camera? And why carry that camera to shoot 35mm film? Besides, as another poster above points out, the 43mm for the Mamiya is nearly identical to the 45mm for the Xpan. The horizontal FOV for both of these lenses is somewhere around 82 degrees with a 65 to 67 mm wide frame. What's the point? If you're going to carry the Mamiya, shoot medium format film. If you want to shoot panos with your 35mm stock, I'd say you are much better served to stick with the Xpan.

You are ignoring the flexibility offered by the Mamiya adapter. Is a dedicated XPan more convenient for using 35mm? Of course, but it really falls down as soon as you load it with 120 film! :bang:

The adapter is cumbersome but not silly at all, you can use film that is not available in 120, and if you don't want to develop your own color, you drop it off anywhere. And you can shoot a roll and then load in 120 and shoot 6x7 - flexible.

Plus the adapter is a lot lighter and compact than an Xpan and lenses. 😉

 

[kuzano]

Manual for the Pano adaptor or the MAM6

Manual for the Pano adaptor or the MAM6

i have a mamiya 6 with the pano adapter. does anyone have a link to an instruction manual or anything? i dont know how to use it.

The pano adaptor uses the concept that the camera pivots on the nodal point, or exit pupil of the lens of your camera, rather than the tripod socket. So, the various brackets of the Pano adaptor are designed to move the camera to a location over the tripod where the pivot point is on this nodal point. The nodal point is the point in the lens where the rays of light cross each other on their way to the film plane.

Nodal points are published for some lens/camera combinations. I have always presumed that the nodal point is in line with the aperture position in my camera. For instance, on my Fuji G690BL, with the 100mm lens mounted, the aperture is 6cm forward of the tripod socked. Therefore, as long as I am shooting in landscaped mode, i need a bracket that is 6 cm long from the tripod screw to the tripod socket on the camera. This gives me rotation around the nodal point.

In reality, that is really only necessary when the subject is within a few feet of the camera. It resolves the problem of rotating the camera creating distortion of close subjects.

If you are shooting at infinity, you can make sure your tripod is level, and rotate the tripod head, making sure you overlap 15-20% of the image on the ends between the two shots for a panorama. The fact is you can continue this rotation on a perfectly leveled tripod for a number of overlapping shots and stitch them together with editing software, like the photomerge command in Photoshop Elements, or CS3.
Frankly, If I were the OP, I would take a tripod with a good level bubble and shoot the panos on 120.... (Oh yeah, I forgot about the specific film requirement). However, he could use the adaptor in the seven, and still use the photo merging concept by overlapping two of the 35mm panos and come out with a very wide pano.

My use of my G690BL and photomerge has saved me from a hugely costly decision... that of buyin a Fuji 617, or a 617 back for my Large Format camera.

On my 4X5, I modified a dark slide, cutting a rectangular hole that is 2X5 (5cmX12.5cm). I cut it on one side so that I can take two images on each 4X5 sheet of film. On a double holder, that gives me 4 5cmx12.5cm Panos. I use the rise and drop to compensate.

Getting back to the question at hand. Use the Mam, so you have the option to change formats while travelling. Use the pano adaptor if you must shoot up that film you have. And also add the option of shooting images that can be merged to your bag of tricks. However, you must use a levelled tripod, or at the very least, a strong monopod and extreme care in repositioning for that second (and third) shot.

The software is so good at doing these photomerges I have seen stitched images blown up to 5 and 6 feet long on 120 shots and sold commercially.

 

[kuzano]

Total agreement on this one...!!!!!

Total agreement on this one...!!!!!

You are ignoring the flexibility offered by the Mamiya adapter. Is a dedicated XPan more convenient for using 35mm? Of course, but it really falls down as soon as you load it with 120 film! :bang:

I must have ruined at least 6, of not 7, rolls of Provia before I realized they were NOT going to fit in an Xpan. I never knew any Hassie that would not take 120. Darn!

 

[gdi]

I must have ruined at least 6, of not 7, rolls of Provia before I realized they were NOT going to fit in an Xpan. I never knew any Hassie that would not take 120. Darn!

I guess you weren't folding it right!

 

[gdi]

The pano adaptor uses the concept that the camera pivots on the nodal point, or exit pupil of the lens of your camera, rather than the tripod socket. So, the various brackets of the Pano adaptor are designed to move the camera to a location over the tripod where the pivot point is on this nodal point. The nodal point is the point in the lens where the rays of light cross each other on their way to the film plane.

...

.

What you are describing is the use of a panorama head - the pano adapter for the Mamiya is for shooting single frame pano images on 35mm film in the MF body. No nodal points or stitching required.

 

[kuzano]

Yes, I understood the question...

Yes, I understood the question...

What you are describing is the use of a panorama head - the pano adapter for the Mamiya is for shooting single frame pano images on 35mm film in the MF body. No nodal points or stitching required.

My response was confusing. I was answering the other poster who indicated he got a pano head and no instructions. Then I tried to apply that answer to the Mam7 pano adaptor, trying to indicate that maybe he would be better off to not use the 35mm in camera adaptor and instead use 120 film and an external pano bracket.

OH well... TMI as usual.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[gdi]

Yes using 120 and a pano head would create some impressive files! I don't think my PC can handle it 🙂