Huss
Veteran
When Weegee did this stuff he was celebrated.
Man Attacked in SF for Photographing Accident
- Thread starter noisycheese
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aizan
Veteran
in the olden days, was it generally thought decent and appropriate to photograph the site of an accident? or is that a new cultural attitude? of course, there's also the fact that people have cameraphones to take and broadcast photos of anything, anytime...
or will happen to them.
I'm pretty sure HCB had his moments of exploitation as well. You never can tell how someone in a photo would feel if they don't know they are being photographed.
newspaperguy
Well-known
Objectively, it boils down to situational awareness.
You can argue the moral values all day long, but there's no arguing with folks who feel they're being 'dissed."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/showphoto.php?photoid=129877
The photographer needs to evaluate a situation, determine if the there is a risk you're willing to accept...
and if he/she wants to maintain a whole skin, learn to de-esculate a situation that you may have miscalculated.
Before you think, "I have a right.." consider that in 'real life' your "rights" end where someones offense begins.
Often, a simple apology will allow a graceful evacuation.
Better to have a bruised ego than a broken nose... or worse! (Trust me on this one.)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/showphoto.php?photoid=126741
And when told by an official type to "step away!" DO IT! Let your lawyer argue later if you feel that outraged.
You can argue the moral values all day long, but there's no arguing with folks who feel they're being 'dissed."
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/showphoto.php?photoid=129877
The photographer needs to evaluate a situation, determine if the there is a risk you're willing to accept...
and if he/she wants to maintain a whole skin, learn to de-esculate a situation that you may have miscalculated.
Before you think, "I have a right.." consider that in 'real life' your "rights" end where someones offense begins.
Often, a simple apology will allow a graceful evacuation.
Better to have a bruised ego than a broken nose... or worse! (Trust me on this one.)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/showphoto.php?photoid=126741
And when told by an official type to "step away!" DO IT! Let your lawyer argue later if you feel that outraged.
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MCTuomey
Veteran
+1 excellent advice
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
+1. Be aware that sometimes your skin (or nose) is at risk, and for what? ego? Seems folish to me.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm afraid, it is nothing but myth and wrong conclusions.
In one of his interviews he has mentioned what in some places you just don't take pictures, because people don't want to have their pictures to be taken.
Fast, yes. Remote, yes, with favourite 50mm, he has mentioned it in the interviews what his comfort zone was with some distance, not like Winogrand's 28 and wider close distance.
But "Discrete" is the myth, repeated by incompetente of human nature, street photography and glorified by HCB interviewers. Have you seen him walking (available on youtube). Do you really think what nobody will notice guy who walks like crane, acts like crane and even jumps like matting crane? It is all about staying within comfort zone. HCB has mentioned what street photographer is doing something like hunting, stealing. But it has nothing to do with how you are acting on the street. It was about moral and other aspects.
HCB mentioned what he was walking same way as he was walking, acting during his first act of independant living. Which happens to be in hunting for wild stock to be able to sell it and have commodities for living in remote place. This is it, HCB was acting in the way he was set to be comfortable with since his first real trip where it was about the same walking for many kilometers and hours.
Read HCB interviews if you can and you will realize what "descrete" is the myth. Blending doesn't mean camouflage and holding camera in stuffed toy.
Blending means interacting with people on the street with or without words and respecting. Stealing, but with dignity.
I think this is what happened with DSLR guy in SF. Most likely he was stealing, but without dignity and this is what set some people off.
Do not use HCB as excuse to act as "invisible" (while it is always visible) on the street. Just because you aren't comfortable to face people reaction. He walked funny way and people around him were fully aware what he was doing. But in one of his interviews he was saying about what should happens if you are only one european person at the china farmers market. You can't blend, for obvious reason. Instead just play with children who are crowding around you and take some time. This advice might be taken not just literally.
Play naturally and act with respect.
Cheers, Ko.
The only thing this guy did wrong, that we know of based on the video, is argue with fools. We didn't see him photograph. Some people just don't like photography because they assume the worst of intentions.
Highway 61
Revisited
I just read the excellent "Voir est un tout" interviews book myself and I have to approve all what is written here. Henri has become a myth, but he doesn't deserve to be used in any discussion related from far or from close to what didn't exist when he was living, i.e. "street photography". AFAIK he never shot any car accident in SF in 2016 with people behaving according to the 2016 mentalities and social context so what's the point ? Nil.
PS : Ko, please don't end your posts by "Cheers, Ko" unless you want to open up a website of some sort, to write many articles which people won't read altough they'll rave about them, and to become quite a character prone to 24/24 babbling about this and that... 😛
😉
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm guessing, one of scenarios.
But I have been in scenario where people started to through rocks on me from some distance just because I pointed camera to their direction, while I didn't really see them. I choose to walk away.
All I want is beer. 🙂
Sante, Ko.
cz23
Well-known
Smart move... imagine how stupid the rock throwers would have felt if they hit you in the head, killed you, and got caught. All over photography. :bang:
fdarnell
Well-known
When a fatal accident occurs these days, it seems that the families/friends/significant others of the victims get "temporary ownership" of the space in which it happened. Hence the large amount of cross placed on public spaces along highways where fatal accidents occurred. In their minds, you have violated their private space and "triggered" them.
This goes all along with the goal of elimination of private property.
I believe there is no cure for this, as too many people believe in this "new doctrine". Orwell was right.
I would never want a monument placed where I was killed in a car wreck as I would not want my family to be forced to relive that incident. Better to be acknowledged for all we do where we are interred than for one specific tragic incident.
However, for most under 40, this concept is gone. There is no cure.
The law states that it's public space, but only here in the US will the second amendment protect it that way. I don't want to carry a .45 along with my cameras, that would be a very sad day.
However, my old Contax ST on the end of very strong neck strap will make a significant impression when placed upside one of these thugs head.
Their parents and our wonderful government are to blame for not teaching them the appreciation of public spaces. This is also manifested in those who decide to deface things like Arches National Park.
This will only be corrected by mass intervention from forces outside the United States, however those forces are currently aligned with the concept of elimination of private property.
My estimation is that street photography will be illegal worldwide by 2020. You will need a permit to photography anything outside your home, and then another permit to photography anything inside your home.
We can also thank the internet for the publication of all these ghoulish photos. They don't offend me, but offer the insight into what happened. They can reveal the truth.
It is the truth that is most offensive to the Orwellians. Hence the mass desire for "safe spaces" where they can retreat when so easily offended.
Reminds me of the Crestassians from Star Trek "Enterprise".
This goes all along with the goal of elimination of private property.
I believe there is no cure for this, as too many people believe in this "new doctrine". Orwell was right.
I would never want a monument placed where I was killed in a car wreck as I would not want my family to be forced to relive that incident. Better to be acknowledged for all we do where we are interred than for one specific tragic incident.
However, for most under 40, this concept is gone. There is no cure.
The law states that it's public space, but only here in the US will the second amendment protect it that way. I don't want to carry a .45 along with my cameras, that would be a very sad day.
However, my old Contax ST on the end of very strong neck strap will make a significant impression when placed upside one of these thugs head.
Their parents and our wonderful government are to blame for not teaching them the appreciation of public spaces. This is also manifested in those who decide to deface things like Arches National Park.
This will only be corrected by mass intervention from forces outside the United States, however those forces are currently aligned with the concept of elimination of private property.
My estimation is that street photography will be illegal worldwide by 2020. You will need a permit to photography anything outside your home, and then another permit to photography anything inside your home.
We can also thank the internet for the publication of all these ghoulish photos. They don't offend me, but offer the insight into what happened. They can reveal the truth.
It is the truth that is most offensive to the Orwellians. Hence the mass desire for "safe spaces" where they can retreat when so easily offended.
Reminds me of the Crestassians from Star Trek "Enterprise".
fdarnell
Well-known
Reminds me of an incident at a Texas truck stop. I don't like my picture taken, even family portraits. I'm behind the lens, not in front.
A young Orwellian took my picture when I was looking at the road map outside the rest stop. I turned and looked and saw only an iPhone. I said: "An iPhone and Instagram? How low end."
I would never think of hitting him or taking his phone. He's free to shoot what he wants. And I could care less if he posts it to instagram with a derogatory comment. That's his negative perception which will consume him.
A young Orwellian took my picture when I was looking at the road map outside the rest stop. I turned and looked and saw only an iPhone. I said: "An iPhone and Instagram? How low end."
I would never think of hitting him or taking his phone. He's free to shoot what he wants. And I could care less if he posts it to instagram with a derogatory comment. That's his negative perception which will consume him.
Fred R.
Established
Lots of good ideas there, fdarnell.
charjohncarter
Veteran
That's why I limit my time in San Francisco, I used to go there all the time as I live very close. But now no way, it is full of people like that (and worse). The city government has lost control of order in San Francisco.
Pioneer
Veteran
What the photographer did inflamed the situation rather than defusing it. That, in a nutshell, is literally what caused the problem. I hate to be a poop here but smiling, apologizing, and then walking away may not feel as good as fighting back, but it will almost always defuse the confrontation.
Being in the right never actually protects you in the street. Being quick and understanding the mood around you, I like to call it "street smart" is your protection. If you have none than maybe you should decide to photograph other things.
Although some of HCB's methods may have some application today, not all of them will work. Such as waiting surreptitiously behind a wooden fence waiting for the right chubby guy to try and jump over a puddle. If someone caught you doing that today you would be considered a pervert at work.
Finally, even today this type of stuff happens rarely. But, if you are concerned about it you probably aren't the right person to take pictures on the street.
Being in the right never actually protects you in the street. Being quick and understanding the mood around you, I like to call it "street smart" is your protection. If you have none than maybe you should decide to photograph other things.
Although some of HCB's methods may have some application today, not all of them will work. Such as waiting surreptitiously behind a wooden fence waiting for the right chubby guy to try and jump over a puddle. If someone caught you doing that today you would be considered a pervert at work.
Finally, even today this type of stuff happens rarely. But, if you are concerned about it you probably aren't the right person to take pictures on the street.
DamenS
Well-known
+1000. Thanks, Pioneer.
Tim Murphy
Well-known
Dear Pioneer,
That's an excellent explanation.
This wasn't about photography, it was about being outside with an attitude in a place where it was neither warranted nor needed.
There was a time when that beat down by girls would have drawn the laughter of the police.
Bottom line unless you know you can and will win the fight it's best to find a way out. That principle hasn't changed since humans left caves.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
That's an excellent explanation.
This wasn't about photography, it was about being outside with an attitude in a place where it was neither warranted nor needed.
There was a time when that beat down by girls would have drawn the laughter of the police.
Bottom line unless you know you can and will win the fight it's best to find a way out. That principle hasn't changed since humans left caves.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
