Maybe I don't know how to meter (35mm Nokton 1.2)

J

jmarcus

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When I'm using the 1.2 in the music clubs I so often shoot, I feel like my metering is off. What I do is point the camera lower on a singer's body so as not to meter off the giant spot light behind him. So lets say at 1.2 the meter says shutter speed of 1/60, now if I go to 1.4 the meter says 1/60th too. I'm assuming this is correct because 1.2 to 1.4 is less then a stop, right? Should I set the lens to 1.2 and then use a shutter speed of 1/125th?

What do you do? I bought this lens to shoot at 1.2. I find it hard focus, and not I'm not sure about how well I meter with it.

thanks,
James
 
what camera do you use?

if m6, its more like a partial to spot metering,

if bessa, its more like center weighted

its difficult to meter if your light source is stage light, the best way to have correct meter is to go up the stage and take a reading of the light coming form the lamps/stage lights with a handheld ambient light meter.
 
In that situation I'd be using the camera set to readings I'd taken prior to the shot. In those sorts of environments I wander around the room first taking refelective readings from the back of my hand and try to memorise the differences in various parts of the space I'm shooting in.
 
If I can I do incident meter reading before during lighting checks, when the world is perfect. If not, I use a spot meter attachment to my Sekonic L-318. Write them down on a post-it or a pad.

Go early and meet the crew (people running the lights), buy a cup of coffee and some donuts.

B2 (;->
 
Several things to mention here:

Firstly, metering a stage with a rangefinder is very hard in all circumstances. Especially when using wide(ish) lenses, as most RFs have center weight metering and will therefore always include much of the surrounding stage backdrop (lights, dark corners, reflections of cymbals etc.)

Changing lighting during a stage show does not make matters any easier. I'd go with a (handheld) spot meter and would try to take the reading off the artists face in a representative light situation, add one stop of exposure and use that, adapting it if necessary from time to time.

In regards to focussing: Stage shows and concerts in particular tend to be rather dynamic affairs. On the other hand, with f1.2 you get very shallow depth of field. That means just a little movement might take e.g. the artist's face out of focus range.

Also, at 1/60th and below, Motion blur will occur almost inevitably (which I personally think to a degree that is great as it captures the action on stage).

So at the end of the day, getting "overall sharp" images is virtually impossible, unless you use very high ISOs and fast shutter speeds which will especially with digital cameras result in rather low image quality.

There are a couple of things you can do, e.g. trap focussing, using a monopod or a flash etc to make life a bit easier. But at the end of the day, stage photography is and will remain one of the most challenging situations. There will be lot of hit and miss.

Also, sharpness is highly overrated... ;-)

cheers
Wolfgang
 
your camera is displaying the same shutter speeds, but may actually be exposing at different shutter speeds. for example - the m7 will only show the nearest shutter speed in 1/2 step increments, but the shutter itself is stepless. at f/1.4 your shutter may actually be firing at 1/52 sec and at f/1.2 your shutter may actually be firing at 1/68 sec. since they're both very near to 1/60 sec, that may be the reason the camera is only displaying 1/60 sec in the viewfinder for both apertures.
 
It doesn't matter how you meter in this situation, or even if you meter well. Just put as much light on the film as you can, knowing that it's a club and there's only so much you can do. Fast film, wide open. Worry more about blurring the shot -- you should be able to hold it steady down to at least 1/30th. Now you're getting the RF aesthetic with shallow DOF and using the latitude of the film for your exposure.
 
One genre of shooting I've focused on for the past several months is music / shows in clubs. It's challenging and rewarding with a steep learning curve. Most of the shows I've shot haven't been published, but there are about a dozen galleries from shows here:
http://ederek.smugmug.com/Music

Ted - I must respectfully disagree - there is a lot you can do, and it does matter how you meter, unless you just want to roll the dice and "maybe" come home with some decent frames. It is fairly easy to completely blow out a performers face, as there are often spot lights on them and I haven't found film latitude to be enough to cover this. 1/30 of a second is straightforward to handhold with a rangefinder, but not really enough to get a good performance picture with the type of music I shoot. I can see some artistic shots with slower shutter speed, especially when timed just right with a performers' movements, but in general, it's too slow for capturing performance shots with a decent % of good frames.

James - I saw you shooting your RD1 at the Sarah Borges show at Johnny D's January 31. I was shooting a 5D with 85/1.8 that night, and have a couple shots of you shooting from next to the stage (none of those in the Smugmug gallery). I think I saw your gallery on Facebook as well. I believe you were using the Nokton 40/1.4 at the time?

Unless trying to get a shot of a guitar, specific instrument, shoes, etc., - then spot meter off the performers' face. The Sekonic L-508 Zoom Master Spot Meter is quite effective. If the light is very low, this may not be sensitive enough, but in general it has worked well. I've used this to shoot an M4 with 400 Trix at EI400, EI800 and EI1250, also have shot Neopan 1600 at EI1600 and EI1100, though have far less experience with this film. Lenses were either 1.4 or 2.0.

I've had some success with the RD1, but last November came home from a show at TT's where the majority of shots were backfocused. Frustrating. Took apart the RD1 to adjust the focus, and it's sat there as a "project" for the past 4 months. Gotta get her together and start shooting with that again!

When the RD1 was put aside I picked up the Canon 5D again (it had been ignored for 6mo due to an all-consuming love for Rangefinders!). Shot with an 85/1.8 and a 50/1.4. Put in the focusing screen for low light, which helped. The 85/1.8 was fairly difficult to focus - too "sloppy". Some of the same backlash type of issues as the RD1 / Nokton 40 combination (separate from backfocusing). The 85/1.2 is far easier to focus at 1.2 than the 85/1.8 at 1.8 - much higher hit ratio, whether manual or autofocus. Auto requires special techniques, including selecting appropriate focus spot and placing that over the performers eye, using AI Servo mode, and firing the moment you have focus lock with no recomposition - very high % of in-focus shots that way. I've found the same thing with the 50/1.2 - it's better than the 50/1.4 for focusing (tighter, without the backlash) and yields some good shots. With the 5D, I use the built-in Spot Metering mode. ALWAYS shoot in Manual Mode.

I hate to say it, but if shooting digital, I recommend chimping on a couple shots to get the appropriate light settings, and go from there. Not just chimping on the whole frame, but zooming in on the performers face and showing the histogram. While some stage lighting constantly changes, I believe most of the light in the clubs you are shooting in the area is pretty constant for a given performance (though not places like Bill's). What is tough is all that red lighting around!!
 
ederek: thanks for your post, I will look into the Sekonic L-508 Zoom Master Spot Meter, and I hope to see you out. Have you been to Precinct for the Seamonsters on Sunday night?

James
 
James, I've never shot with an R-D1, so I can't offer much advice in that respect. I'm working on a concert project right now, that's including different musicians over the past several months. I purposely chose film for this project because of it's wide exposure latitude, and my film of choice has been Kodak Tmax P3200. My best pictures, using a 50/1.4 Summilux (pre-asph) almost exclusively, have been using an EI of 800 or 1600. I think when you're working with such extremes in lighting, and the fact that it can drastically change so unexpectedly, film just seems the most logical choice, Most of my pictures are shot at around f/1.4-2.8, with shutter speeds from 1/8 to 1/60, depending on what I'm trying to achieve. Here's a link to what I'm printing for a show this spring:

http://www.pbase.com/marke/sounds_at_the_grounds
 
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