jan normandale
Film is the other way
Some where in this thread there was a mention of Bronica equipment. Bronica has discontinued / shut down production of it's cameras.
Knowing this, I have seen people bailing on Bronica stuff , not a rush for the exits but still they are moving away. The glass is excellent and a SQ or something like it should do you for a long time as long as you look after the camera.
Finally don't forget the folders. If you can find one with a rangefinder that is the only way to go there. Some of the Zeiss, Balda, Ansco, Certo and others can be an affordable entry which you can still keep for street shooting.
Check out KEH.com and Certo6.com respectively for info on the MF Bronicas and the folders
good luck
Jan
Knowing this, I have seen people bailing on Bronica stuff , not a rush for the exits but still they are moving away. The glass is excellent and a SQ or something like it should do you for a long time as long as you look after the camera.
Finally don't forget the folders. If you can find one with a rangefinder that is the only way to go there. Some of the Zeiss, Balda, Ansco, Certo and others can be an affordable entry which you can still keep for street shooting.
Check out KEH.com and Certo6.com respectively for info on the MF Bronicas and the folders
good luck
Jan
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
Don might still have his TLR available, too
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3250
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3250
DougK
This space left blank
I think a decent TLR is the way to go here. My Seagull does great, but it's a crapshoot whether you get a good one or not... I got lucky.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Wayne R. Scott said:
Wayne, no joke, you are wise.
cp_ste.croix
At the beginning again.
Thanks everyone...I think I am leaning towards a TLR or SLR (though the mayima 6&7 would be sweet too) unless my gf finds out, in which case it will definitely be a folder.
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help.
chris
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help.
chris
W
wlewisiii
Guest
cp_ste-croix said:
LOL. Yes, that is one of the folder's chief advantages isn't it? Fun, bang for buck and scaring the mundanes when that front pops open and - yikes! there's lens there! are the others...
Good luck & enjoy whatever you do get.
William
R
richiedcruz
Guest
Don't forget Ricoh
Don't forget Ricoh
As long as people are recommending TLRs, don't forget about the Ricoh Diacord L and Ricohmatic 225. My Ricohmatic is on its way to Mark Hama as I write and I cannot wait to try it out. From what I understand the four element lenses in those two cameras is quite good, plus they feed film from the top to bottom of the camera like a Minoltacord (good for film flatness) and they are real bargains.
In which case, maybe I should delete this post
Richie
Don't forget Ricoh
As long as people are recommending TLRs, don't forget about the Ricoh Diacord L and Ricohmatic 225. My Ricohmatic is on its way to Mark Hama as I write and I cannot wait to try it out. From what I understand the four element lenses in those two cameras is quite good, plus they feed film from the top to bottom of the camera like a Minoltacord (good for film flatness) and they are real bargains.
In which case, maybe I should delete this post
Richie
thpook
Squawkbox Delux
There is a Yashica 124 in bargain condition on keh right now. It is $149, and will do you right.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Speaking from experiance, KEH's idea of bargan is what most ebay sellers call minty... That's a good deal.
William
William
RObert Budding
D'oh!
I agree - KEH is fantastic. I had problems with a Mamiya film back that they sold me. They swapped it out without any problem. And yes, even bargain-grade gear is very good.
Robert
Robert
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
6x6 you can get reeeeally cheap nowadays. A TLR is a good option. Go for one with a Tessar type f/3.5 lens (that is, Tessar and Xenar on Rolleis, Yashinon on Yashica's, and i guess there's some correspondent on Mamiyas etc). Frankly, i think EVERY amateur photographer should have a TLR.
Another option is a folder. I have found a super ikonta for 20 euros; true, it needed some readjustment, cleaning,lubing, and it has the novar-anastigmat lens, not the tessar, but it's as sharp as it gets if i stop down a bit - and wide-open, is still more than usable! In fact i love the results around f/4, the subject separation from the background is excellent. And it's pocketable. You can risk a russian famous Iskra too. A mamiya 6 (the old folder, not the new interchangeable!!!) is apparently one of the best folders, esp with a zuiko lens, but a bit rare. Plenty of Agfas Ansco's etc.
Then there are the Fuji fixed-lens MF's, a bit more expensive, above 300$ used. Some with wider lenses; some of them 6x4.5, some 6x7 or 6x9.
Plenty of choices. And, you know what's good about medium format? No matter which camera you get, if it WORKS, you will never be disappointed by the results
Another option is a folder. I have found a super ikonta for 20 euros; true, it needed some readjustment, cleaning,lubing, and it has the novar-anastigmat lens, not the tessar, but it's as sharp as it gets if i stop down a bit - and wide-open, is still more than usable! In fact i love the results around f/4, the subject separation from the background is excellent. And it's pocketable. You can risk a russian famous Iskra too. A mamiya 6 (the old folder, not the new interchangeable!!!) is apparently one of the best folders, esp with a zuiko lens, but a bit rare. Plenty of Agfas Ansco's etc.
Then there are the Fuji fixed-lens MF's, a bit more expensive, above 300$ used. Some with wider lenses; some of them 6x4.5, some 6x7 or 6x9.
Plenty of choices. And, you know what's good about medium format? No matter which camera you get, if it WORKS, you will never be disappointed by the results
taffer
void
Let me add another vote for a TLR, but indeed Pherdi is right. With such a big negative size, if you get a good working camera with a decent enough lens (don't overlook the cheaper 3 elements ones, they can give surprisingly good results) you won't be disappointed.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
I see that Frank has folded on folders. I'd have to agree on the costs to benefit ratio versus a good TLR. I've actually have some good results from folders, but composing with the 2x2 viewing screen of a TLR actually allows you to visualize the final image, especially if you like to shoot wide open.
If you want to get your feet wet, try the Yashica D with a Tessar-type Yashinon, if avaiable. You'll have to cock the shutter manually, but there is less to go wrong with the camera than with the Mat. Look to spend about 50 bucks USD.
The Pentacon 6 is a good choice, but has a delicate wind lever and its pentaprism viewfinder can be rather dim in low light. The waist level finder is brighter. If you get hooked, you'll see that there is some interesting Zeiss Jena glass out there for this puppy.
I'm the proud owner of an older Minolta Autocord with the dimmer viewing screen and Seikosha shutter. The 60's version with the Citizen shutter and brighter viewing screen is better, but mine only cost me $75 back when digital cameras were non-existent.
I've since switched to folders, but I couldn't pass up a $40 Rolleicord V that need a CLA at a yard sale. The old Rollei doesn't out perform the Minolta image wise, but it really does have a better fit and finish than upstart from Minolta.
If you want to get your feet wet, try the Yashica D with a Tessar-type Yashinon, if avaiable. You'll have to cock the shutter manually, but there is less to go wrong with the camera than with the Mat. Look to spend about 50 bucks USD.
The Pentacon 6 is a good choice, but has a delicate wind lever and its pentaprism viewfinder can be rather dim in low light. The waist level finder is brighter. If you get hooked, you'll see that there is some interesting Zeiss Jena glass out there for this puppy.
I'm the proud owner of an older Minolta Autocord with the dimmer viewing screen and Seikosha shutter. The 60's version with the Citizen shutter and brighter viewing screen is better, but mine only cost me $75 back when digital cameras were non-existent.
I've since switched to folders, but I couldn't pass up a $40 Rolleicord V that need a CLA at a yard sale. The old Rollei doesn't out perform the Minolta image wise, but it really does have a better fit and finish than upstart from Minolta.
oftheherd
Veteran
At your price range, you are limited. It will be tough to find a Yashica MAT 124 or other TLR, in that range, that you would want to own. You might get lucky. There are indeed some nice folders out there. The Weltas usually sell at reasonable prices because they aren't a well known brand. But, they tend to be good. I have heard good things on this forum about some of the FSU folders.
I personally own a Mamiya Super Press 23 and some lenses and accessories. I like it very much. Better than the Rolleiflex TLR I also own. I don't know if you can find one with a lens at $150 or not. Maybe one of the older models with the sloped top. They are a true system camera, but are larger than 35mm rangefinders. Still, for what they offer in the 6x7 negative, they are worth it. When I was younger and in much better shape, I used to carry two SLR's, a full camera bag and the 'Press 23 up and down mountains.
Yah, much younger and in much better shape! Still, I would recommend your consideration of that as well as the others. For sure, consider a good folder too. Some of them had very good lenses and they are certainly compact to carry. I have a Welta with the 645 insert that I think I paid about $35 for. It is really nice. There are others as good or better for not too much more.
Good luck in your choice. The problem with the recommendations given above, is that they are all good except for the price of some of them.
I personally own a Mamiya Super Press 23 and some lenses and accessories. I like it very much. Better than the Rolleiflex TLR I also own. I don't know if you can find one with a lens at $150 or not. Maybe one of the older models with the sloped top. They are a true system camera, but are larger than 35mm rangefinders. Still, for what they offer in the 6x7 negative, they are worth it. When I was younger and in much better shape, I used to carry two SLR's, a full camera bag and the 'Press 23 up and down mountains.
Yah, much younger and in much better shape! Still, I would recommend your consideration of that as well as the others. For sure, consider a good folder too. Some of them had very good lenses and they are certainly compact to carry. I have a Welta with the 645 insert that I think I paid about $35 for. It is really nice. There are others as good or better for not too much more.
Good luck in your choice. The problem with the recommendations given above, is that they are all good except for the price of some of them.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
As to rolleiflexes, I got a pre-war 'flex automat 2 (or 3?) with an uncoated tessar for 120 euro. Found via a nice guy HERE who also visits photo.net and noticed that a nice guy THERE is selling it. It's in a USER shape (70 years of usage can't go unnoticed) but it's fully functional and works extremely well.
Although uncoated lens, if I pay a bit of attention to where the light is coming from, and put the hood on it, the results are excellent, even on colour neg.
Whatever you go for, try to find one from a seller that stands behind it (don't expect much from "as-is" items of this age). Remember also that "mint" and "new in box" etc are already the collector category meaning a too high price.
I guess you don't need it anymore, but still i attach some "bait" here. First is with the rolleiflex, uncoated tessar. Handheld at 1/50 s, wide open, fuji NPH. Second is the el-cheapo super ikonta with the "lower quality" three element lens, a novar anastigmat, around f/5.6 ...also NPH.
Note that you can't go very close with neither a TLR nor a MF rangefinder - the first image, of the guy, is at minimal focus distance. Close-up attachments are tricky to use.
Although uncoated lens, if I pay a bit of attention to where the light is coming from, and put the hood on it, the results are excellent, even on colour neg.
Whatever you go for, try to find one from a seller that stands behind it (don't expect much from "as-is" items of this age). Remember also that "mint" and "new in box" etc are already the collector category meaning a too high price.
I guess you don't need it anymore, but still i attach some "bait" here. First is with the rolleiflex, uncoated tessar. Handheld at 1/50 s, wide open, fuji NPH. Second is the el-cheapo super ikonta with the "lower quality" three element lens, a novar anastigmat, around f/5.6 ...also NPH.
Note that you can't go very close with neither a TLR nor a MF rangefinder - the first image, of the guy, is at minimal focus distance. Close-up attachments are tricky to use.
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
cp_ste-croix said:
For a cheap start I'd second Wayne's TLR suggestions, if you can invest more get a rangefinder.
Tho the lenses are superb (Xenar, Xenotar, Planar) be careful with used Rolleicord and Rolleiflex, never buy a 30 to 50yo camera for many hundred bucks if you had not held it in your hands before !!! There can be a lot of expensive service work hidden in such a machine !! Focus drive, shutter, mirror, screen, fungus and so on.
Regards,
Bertram
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
very true.. a few months ago I was handed a Rolleiflex that looked like it was in decent shape, but definitely needed a CLA.. I sent it off to a repair shop, expecting a repair bill of around $150... the estimate was over $400.. since I technically don't own the camera, I can't really justify putting the money into it.. so it just sits there on the repair bench, in camera limbo
R
Roman
Guest
For 150 USD you can get:
a pre-124 Yashicamat in very good condition;
a Yashicamat 124G in averageuser condition;
a Rolleicord in good condition (except for the 'cord Vb, which goes for a bit more);
with a bit of luck, a Rolleiflex Automat in user condition;
a good user Pentacon Six TL;
a good user Kiev 60;
a very good Iskra from a reliable seller;
a boatload of older folders.
I own all of these - here are my recommendations:
TLRs are really nice, good for travelling, relatively lightweight, everybody should own one. However, you can't change lenses!
Folders are even more compact, the Iskra has an excellent lens, but folders are not that practical in use.
A _working_ Kiev 60 is a good workhorse that takes many good lenses and can be easily repaired yourself; bit heavy, though.
The Pentacon Six TL is a bit more refined than the Kiev, but also breaks more easily and is more difficult to repair - in doubt, go for the Kiev.
Roman
a pre-124 Yashicamat in very good condition;
a Yashicamat 124G in averageuser condition;
a Rolleicord in good condition (except for the 'cord Vb, which goes for a bit more);
with a bit of luck, a Rolleiflex Automat in user condition;
a good user Pentacon Six TL;
a good user Kiev 60;
a very good Iskra from a reliable seller;
a boatload of older folders.
I own all of these - here are my recommendations:
TLRs are really nice, good for travelling, relatively lightweight, everybody should own one. However, you can't change lenses!
Folders are even more compact, the Iskra has an excellent lens, but folders are not that practical in use.
A _working_ Kiev 60 is a good workhorse that takes many good lenses and can be easily repaired yourself; bit heavy, though.
The Pentacon Six TL is a bit more refined than the Kiev, but also breaks more easily and is more difficult to repair - in doubt, go for the Kiev.
Roman
stet
lurker.
For $200 you could get a bargain Mamiya 6 folder with Zuiko lens from KEH.
http://www.keh.com/shop/product.cfm?bid=AC&cid=03&sid=newused&crid=11123351
http://www.keh.com/shop/product.cfm?bid=AC&cid=03&sid=newused&crid=11123351
P C Headland
Well-known
For $150 you do have some choices. You need to decide what is most important - size, weight, flexibility.
For size & weight, an old RF folder like an Iskra (or Super Balda, Mamiya 6, Welta) is a good bet. I have the Iskra and several other folders, all bought from ebay and all in very good working condition. Of them, the Iskra is the best in terms of quality and ease of use.
I also have a Century Graphic 2x3 press camera. Somewhat larger, but a selection of lenses and formats are available. Make sure you get one with a Graflok back. Other press camera options (rangefinders too) are the Mamiya 23 or a Koni Omega.
For something a bit more rigid, you could go for a Yashica/Flexaret/Minolta/Ricoh/Ikoflex TLR. For intechangeable lenses, maybe a Mamiya C220. Somewhat larger than a folder, and some people never get used to the back to front image on the GG. My Yashica LM is quite good to use, but for day to day use I prefer the Iskra.
For something larger and more flexible, maybe a Pentacon 6 or Kiev 60 from a reputable source on ebay (e.g. CUPOG, who does service/check the cameras before sale) or even have a look on KEH.
Personally, I like the folders, and for $150 you could get a 6x6 camera and a 6x9 by going Russian (Iskra and Mosvka 5).
Wherever you buy, buy from a reputable source, even if it means paying a little bit extra.
Paul
For size & weight, an old RF folder like an Iskra (or Super Balda, Mamiya 6, Welta) is a good bet. I have the Iskra and several other folders, all bought from ebay and all in very good working condition. Of them, the Iskra is the best in terms of quality and ease of use.
I also have a Century Graphic 2x3 press camera. Somewhat larger, but a selection of lenses and formats are available. Make sure you get one with a Graflok back. Other press camera options (rangefinders too) are the Mamiya 23 or a Koni Omega.
For something a bit more rigid, you could go for a Yashica/Flexaret/Minolta/Ricoh/Ikoflex TLR. For intechangeable lenses, maybe a Mamiya C220. Somewhat larger than a folder, and some people never get used to the back to front image on the GG. My Yashica LM is quite good to use, but for day to day use I prefer the Iskra.
For something larger and more flexible, maybe a Pentacon 6 or Kiev 60 from a reputable source on ebay (e.g. CUPOG, who does service/check the cameras before sale) or even have a look on KEH.
Personally, I like the folders, and for $150 you could get a 6x6 camera and a 6x9 by going Russian (Iskra and Mosvka 5).
Wherever you buy, buy from a reputable source, even if it means paying a little bit extra.
Paul