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Bill Pierce

Bill Pierce

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Having different digital cameras with different controls, trying to remember which button or dial does what, can slow you down when you’re taking pictures. And, yet, many of us own multiple digital cameras. It was easy with film cameras with their basic controls, but now we have cameras with menus and assignable buttons and dials. Sony cameras are different from Fuji cameras are different from Leica cameras are different from… Actually, models within a single brand can have different controls.

I like my toys. But if I don’t use a camera frequently, I can find myself not remembering what button activates some less than often used function.

In my film days I never had much problem switching between a Leica, a Hasselblad or even an 8x10 view camera. Film folks are going to laugh at us digital dudes. There wasn’t that much difference between a Leica M3 and M7. Can’t say that for a Fuji X-Pro 3 and XT-3, much less a Leica and a Sony. Most of the time I set up a camera so I don’t have to go in to the menus or rely heavily on function buttons. But I can’t say that for some of the less used functions, like Sony’s animal eye focus. It brings me to a debilitating slow down that even annoys my dog. I guess it’s true for even the more useful functions like changing meter patterns. Any thoughts? Any suggestions?
 
I've pretty much stuck with Nikon for my digital cameras (save for the Leica M9, which is pretty film like). On the "big" cameras for work everything is pre-set, I just adjust the Aperture and ISO, everything is set for tracking fast moving subjects. My only non-Nikon that I use for events is a Canon 6d but only for events where folks aren't moving much. It's not set up with all the focus tracking like the Nikons.

So I've pretty much put together my digitals to mimic my film gear. I'd probably be lost with the Fuji and Sony digitals.

Best,
-Tim
 
My main working digital cameras are 2 of the same brand/model, which is the way I generally worked with film cameras too. I did shoot multiple formats with film--at least 2 matching 35 SLRs, 2 Rolleiflexes and 2 Toyo 4x5 (an F and a G, which were close enough). The menu situation with current digital cameras makes this even more important to me since I don't want to waste time on figuring out which settings to use.
 
Bill Pierce said:
There wasn’t that much difference between a Leica M3 and M7. Can’t say that for a Fuji X-Pro 3 and XT-3,
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While Leica is special in this regard... I can't see how the two Fujis are drastically different either... especially for digital.

My thing is to try to make my digital cameras as simple as my film cameras had been. Use one meter mode always. And only go back into the menu, after initial set-up, to format my SD Cards.
 
Bill is raising valid point.
Personally, I have my long term training with endless menus in the broadcast racks. Cameras menus ain't much different to navigate once in a while after it. Evertz Master Clock menus are deep. If I remember correct, it is something like thousand of combinations.

The only problem I have now is pressing play button at the wrong place on M-E 220 and looking for the taken picture in VF after I get used to RP :).
 
Very limited digital experience. Since 2005 when I bought a used E300 to last September obtaining a EM10 have only had 3 digital cameras. Even so, unless I pick it up and use it regularly I soon forget what does what. Mostly it’s aperture priority (all manual lenses so naturally, aperture priority) with occasional switches between meter patterns and ISO. So....not too complicated....so far.
 
Fuji and Nikon are the two systems I use. They are completely different but I use them both enough so that the controls are familiar for each. Occasionally I will use a Ricoh GRII and, yes, I do have to think about what button does what when I first pick up the camera.

In the past, I also had an Olympus OMD-EM1. I never could remember what controlled what on that camera, all the controls felt wrongly placed to me and the menus were a nightmare. If I was able to figure out what I was doing well enough to use the camera, I got excellent images. I finally stopped using it completely...not worth the effort.
 
It's funny how cameras that are designed to do everything for the photographer are actually harder (and much less fun) to use than simple old-fashioned cameras where the photographer has to do everything himself. It's easier to just do everything yourself that try to force a computer with a lens (which is what a digital camera is) to do what you want it to do.

The only digital camera I own at present is my old Nikon D40 that I've had for 12 years. I've pretty much got that one figured out by now, but unless I need a telephoto zoom or a macro lens with VR I much prefer to shoot my old manual focus Nikons and Pentaxes.
 
Not all film cameras are necessarily so simple. I never did figure out what all the options in my Nikon F6 did, for instance, and ask any newcomer to a Hasselblad 500CM how much they have to learn... Yeah, the basic things are simple, but that's just as true for digital cameras as it is for film cameras.

How to get to those basic things is the crux of the matter.

Some of my cameras have been highly configurable with lots and lots of interacting settings (the Olympus E-M1 is the epitome of this design meme), others have been bone simple and learnable within a minute or two (here, the Leica M-D typ 262 is the top of the pack by dint of eliding most things other than ISO, shutter time, lens opening, focus, and shutter release: there is little else, so there's little else to learn or remember). My tactic with all cameras is to spend a week or two studying it intensely, learn all the controls and evaluate what they mean to me, then set the camera up the way I choose to use it and forget the things that don't make any difference to me. For some cameras, I can barely get to that point within a week, for others an hour suffices.

Once I'm there, I just use the thing and enjoy it. When something comes up, I've read the manual and I know where to look to find out how to do something I don't do very often rapidly.

For me, that's all it takes. I swap between three digital cameras and four film cameras nowadays. They're all set up the way I want, my 'simple use configurations' are all sensible and logical, and I don't bother myself with not knowing every bell and whistle all the time. Occasionally when I switch from one to another, I'll forget something and lose a frame or two—it's not a big deal, I remember quickly and correct myself, don't worry about it.

There are too many other things in life where the decisions are much more critical to worry about missing an exposure here or there. :)

G

Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure.
 
Bill Pierce said:
... It was easy with film cameras with their basic controls, but now...
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you Bill. This is one of the reasons I like to use Leica.

Of course an experienced photographer can set up a menu according to his pereferences and needs and than it should be not necessary to change too many things and use it like a film cameras, more or less.

I find the problem worse for not so experienced photographers: I bought for my wife a D-109 and the image quality is up to her needs.

My wife learned to photograph with manual Nikon and understands iso, aperture and shutter speed. Focus of course. That is.

The D-109 has so many menus and so many buttons in a small body (all explained in a more than 200 pages manual) that if by mistake a wrong button is pushed some strange and not desired function is activated...sometimes we even do not realize it! Only after we download the files we notice it!

I guess this is the price we have to pay in order to use multifunction technology!
 
robert blu said:
I fully agree with you Bill. This is one of the reasons I like to use Leica.

........
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I can't figure out why some manufacturer hasn't figured this out yet. Don't give up on what's in place, too much learning on many peoples part.

What they need to do is develop personality level setting. I think some might have it, but I'm not sure. Something that would allow a camera to be shared by two different people and have multiple settings (e.g. button function, exposure control) set to their preference.

Now, here's one of two magic parts, have a basic camera configuration, manual control, slimmed down display, KISS control of old. Say front dial for aperture, rear dial for ISO, top dial for shutter speed. In the instructions you might be directed to set some of the dials to a specific setting (e.g. use the top shutter speed dial for selecting your manual shutter speed)

The second magic part is that you can copy this profile and make minor changes to it to make it your own (e.g. make the Nikon buttons work like you have your Canon set up).

I remember when the D300 was new, the Nikonians site had folks who shared a spreadsheet with their settings to make things easier for setting up your new camera. I never dove into digital to that level and they started charging for access so I never went further. I'm wondering if this is something we (RFF-Folk) could do here? Create a series of profile settings for say Luddite (like me) manual control of everything, AESP, AEAP, AEPg.

I'm still not shooting with my XE-3. It's a time thing, I haven't had the time to make the controls part of me. I know at least one person here have given up on digital bodies because of the learning curve. For me this frustration (read black hole of time) has slowed my adoption (read I don't earn my living with photograph).

When the Nikon Df came out I was hoping that the minimalist approach would be taken (read just give me a true digital nikon F2 please) but IMHO it wasn't. My gut tells me that there is a change for any of the big four to tap into a large niche to come out with a "KISS" camera for those of us, say 55-ish and older. Use the new glass, use manual glass, please use the old glass (Nikon).

If I didn't have windows that didn't work well in the house I'm renting I'd open one up, stick my head out and shout "I'm MAD as he11 and I'm not going to take it any more....."

B2 (;->

P.S. I don't see me affording plunking down the cash for a digital Leica body or glass. I wish I could, but cash flow is not that good for the foreseeable future. I think I'm happy with my XE-3. Native Z glass seems VERY big, too big, perhaps I'm spoiled.
 
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The "do everything" digitals are really only as complicated as you want them to be. Sure, it might have 1000 features, but it's OK if you don't use 9995 of them.
 
css9450 said:
The "do everything" digitals are really only as complicated as you want them to be. Sure, it might have 1000 features, but it's OK if you don't use 9995 of them.
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9450,

It's not the use of a feature, it's the setting up. When my XE-3 was unboxed it was auto everything. Just needed to touch the back display to take a picture, shutter release worked for that too.

As I move to make her my own, I find that there are interrelationships between controls that aren't quite called out well in the manual. Yes, I broke the man-law and read the manual. After years of telling folks RTFM I figured I should take my own medicine for a change.

It's the use of the features that many of us know and love that we find across most analog cameras that we know and love and avoiding the other 9995.

B2 (;->
 
I think Ricoh does a particularly good job with their GR cameras, as once I get it configured, I rarely need to go into settings or hunt for a function. The 5-function quick menu when pressing the top jog dial inwards is an enlightened decision.

Also, the GR III has highlight weighted metering, which makes exposure controls so much easier, since I find myself changing exposure less often. While I know it doesn't change the camera's ability to expose across a wider range than it did before, I am usually adjusting to protect the highlights, so now I find myself changing a very little in order to stay within the range I want.
 
agentlossing said:
I think Ricoh does a particularly good job with their GR cameras, as once I get it configured, I rarely need to go into settings or hunt for a function. The 5-function quick menu when pressing the top jog dial inwards is an enlightened decision.

Also, the GR III has highlight weighted metering, which makes exposure controls so much easier, since I find myself changing exposure less often. While I know it doesn't change the camera's ability to expose across a wider range than it did before, I am usually adjusting to protect the highlights, so now I find myself changing a very little in order to stay within the range I want.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but some times you feel like a telephoto.....

But for time you don't, Ricoh's menus and general under interface (how the camera works) ROCKS.

B2
 
Go back 35 or 40 years and cameras had CPU's in them but they worked as we'd like them too. My guess is that the makers told the programmers what they wanted and it was done for them. Then they went mad and loaded everything they could into them.

They still like doing it. Look at Windows 10 and all the bits and pieces put in it that duplicate and triplicate things if you use and choose software you like; there's nothing I or we can do about it. I'd like to have a Windows cleaner that took out what I don't use.

As for digital cameras, Leica got it right years ago with the Digilux-2 (in 2003) and I hope they keep on the straight and narrow...


Regards, David
 
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I get the camera, read the manual, and set up the camera the way I want it. I rarely access the menus after that. It is just no big deal. I also don't buy a new camera every six months which helps.
 
When cameras went electronic it became easy to add features without adding costs to the product. When marketing a camera (or anything else, for that matter) it is easier to sell a product that has more features for the same price than a competing brand, so naturally camera manufacturers do that. There are niche markets (Leica, for example) that succeed by doing the opposite but there will never be millions of Leica M 10 cameras sold even if the price came down by half since it still takes more work (manual focusing) to make pictures with them than other cameras that are more automated.

Readers of this forum excepted, most people want "good pictures" with the least amount of effort. Manufacturers of DSLRs and sophisticated mirrorless cameras know this and set these cameras to come out of the box set for autofocus, auto exposure, etc. realizing that many of these cameras will never be set any other way. At least the rest of us can turn off some of this when we don't want or need it, providing we have the patience to go through the menus.
 
An even better strategy would be to read the owner's manual of any camera you are considering before buying it and figuring out if it will work for you. Not quite as good as having the camera in hand and working through all the settings but it gives you a good idea. Although I only have the D40 at present, I have been reading a lot of manuals lately as I'm thinking of upgrading. Leica is in a class by themselves in terms of simplicity, but out of my price range. The GRIII seems extremely intuitive, and the latest Nikon DSLRs and Z series make sense to me. The X100V and XT-4 are getting pretty complicated for my tastes, and the Olympus and Panasonic mirrorless cameras and the Pentax DSLRs seem a bridge too far in terms of complexity. Just my opinions from reading manuals online, of course, but it will guide any purchasing decisions I may make.
 
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