Metering Question

[Roger Hicks]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Very kind but there is a great deal of conflicting advice...

Meter from shadows/ don't meter from shadows
don't use meter/do
red filters will darken shot
grey card/ not grey card
incident/reflective/spot
grass/hand

As I have said, I am really grateful for the advice. It has helped but to firm it up could someone answer the following questions in a non theoretical and concise way.

1 If I take a black and white shot using hp5 with a red filter of a landscape scene where top third will be bright sky with the sun behind me on a bright day what would I meter and where would I meter from

2 as above but yellow filter

3 As 1 but a building

4 As 2 but a building

5 Would the answers to 1-4 change on an overcast day?

Many thanks

John

Dear John,

Favour the shadows (point the meter more towards the shadows/dark areas) with either landscape or building. This is the basic advice and all you really need.

With a red, orange or yellow filter the shadows will be even darker on a sunny day than in an unfiltered shot because they are lit by blue skylight not white sunlight, and 'contrast' filters darken blue. Meter anything else and you risk losing shadow detail.

The red filtered shot will be contrastiest (blue shadows). Consider an ND grad filter. Also consider that some meters are excessively sensitive to red and may recommend underexposure.

No, it doesn't change on an overcast day. The subject brightness range will be reduced but the shadows still remain shadows and may block up unless you favour them.

A LOT depends on what sort of meter you are using. TTL? Hand-held? What sort of meter cell?

You cannot invariably rely on either incident or a grey card (exposure keyed to highlights) because both completely ignore the shadows. On an overcast day, film latitude will save you. On a sunny day, it won't. Incident is ideal for slides and digital (exposure keyed to highlights) but NOT for negatives (exposure keyed to shadows).

A 'non-theoretical' answer is impossible because (a) the latitude of B+W film covers a vast range of errors, fads, misconceptions and internet drivel and (b) ANY method of metering (even grey cards and incident metering on sunny days) can be made to work with the appropriate 'fudge factors'.

Although it's not about metering, you might also care to look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps ignore gurus.html "Gurus and Why to Avoid Them".

Cheers,

R.

 

[taskoni]

Dear Boris,

With nearly 47 years' experience of exposing B+W, I can almost always guess very accurately indeed.

Unfortunately, "almost always" and "always" are not quite the same. No fun when I don't get the picture!

If there's time, or if I REALLY want/need the picture, I'll use a meter and/or bracket.

Cheers,

R.

Dear Roger.

Thank you for the input!

Regards,

Boris

 

[dave lackey]

Good grief, I just read through the thread to this point and I am glad I am not just starting out! Now I am confused!😱

Reckon I will just use the X1 on A and A for today, make myself a mint julep tonight at the end of the day and enjoy the bokeh...then I will be about 10 stops underexposed 'til morning.😛

Tomorrow, I will swear off these kinds of thread...

 

[Roman A Clef]

Thanks everone. I need to digest all this but it is very kind of people to take time to post. Hopefully i will get somewhere now and this combined with experience will do the trick

Thanks again

John

 

[dave lackey]

Hi. I would welcome some advice with regard to metering. I am fairly new to photography and am on a steep learning curve. One of the things I struggle with is metering.

I am using a 1951 Leica iiif and a Summitar f2 lens as well as a reconditioned (and so presumably, accurate) Weston v lightmeter.

I am taking black & white photographs and I use yellow and red filters for shots outside which are generally buildings and landscapes.

I find if a shot is evenly lit there is rarely a problem but where it isn't, ie very bright skies or bright buildings, with the rest of the shot in shade or much darker, the darker areas are very dark.

Should I take one reading on brightest part and one on the darkest and average the two or, should I just meter from the darkest part?

Should I stand nearer to the building etc to meter from as opposed to meter from where I am taking the shot. It would help to know what to aim the light meter at and from what distance for various scenarios including buildings and landscapes.

I have a fold out grey card and should I use that and if so do I go very near to it with the light meter but obviously avoiding shadow? How is this possible unless it is ok to meter the card at arms length. Meter in one hand, card in other.

Does the red filter which I allow 3 stops of light for with the light meter, as opposed to 1 with the yellow filter, accentuate this problem?

I suspect that on occasions, but certainly not always, the dynamic range of the photo I am seeking to take is very large and so a graduated nd filter may be the answer but, if that can be avoided, I would like to know how.

Any guidance would be most welcome. Thanks.

Roman, (John),

What is your background in photography? Are you coming from a digital background or have you been in film for sometime?

Either way, photography is simple, really and it should be fun. Get the basics down, keep it simple and enjoy! Experiment with digital along with film cameras and you will find your way soon enough.

Please post some of your images to share with all of us.🙂

 

[Roger Hicks]

Thanks everone. I need to digest all this but it is very kind of people to take time to post. Hopefully i will get somewhere now and this combined with experience will do the trick

Thanks again

John

Dear John,

Note the rewrite (for clarity) in my post 21.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roman A Clef]

Hi Dave, Roger et al,

I have been taking shots for about a year "properly" I played with a digital camera on p mode before that.

I develop my own film and scan using an Epson V500 (which is another whole new can of worms!).

I have recently set up a website for insomniac family and friends, which is,

http://www.laffertyphotography.co.uk/

 

[dave lackey]

Dear John,

Favour the shadows (point the meter more towards the shadows/dark areas) with either landscape or building. This is the basic advice and all you really need.

With a red, orange or yellow filter the shadows will be even darker on a sunny day than in an unfiltered shot because they are lit by blue skylight not white sunlight, and 'contrast' filters darken blue. Meter anything else and you risk losing shadow detail.

The red filtered shot will be contrastiest (blue shadows). Consider an ND grad filter. Also consider that some meters are excessively sensitive to red and may recommend underexposure.

No, it doesn't change on an overcast day. The subject brightness range will be reduced but the shadows still remain shadows and may block up unless you favour them.

A LOT depends on what sort of meter you are using. TTL? Hand-held? What sort of meter cell?

You cannot invariably rely on either incident or a grey card (exposure keyed to highlights) because both completely ignore the shadows. On an overcast day, film latitude will save you. On a sunny day, it won't. Incident is ideal for slides and digital (exposure keyed to highlights) but NOT for negatives (exposure keyed to shadows).

A 'non-theoretical' answer is impossible because (a) the latitude of B+W film covers a vast range of errors, fads, misconceptions and internet drivel and (b) ANY method of metering (even grey cards and incident metering on sunny days) can be made to work with the appropriate 'fudge factors'.

Although it's not about metering, you might also care to look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps ignore gurus.html "Gurus and Why to Avoid Them".

Cheers,

R.

Ahhh....much better.:angel:

Can't remember what a grey card is anymore...I used to have one but no idea where it is now.😛

 

[Roman A Clef]

Hi

I am sure someone posted some photos with settings on this thread and they have disappeared. That was very useful. Could that person re post or email me please?

Thanks

John