Metz flash and M8

[john_nyc]

Is anyone using a Metz flash the M8?

I have a 54MZ-3 w/ an SCA 3502 version 3 adapter.

The TTL mode works fine on my M7, but on the M8 the flash will only fire if I put it into M mode.

I noticed in the manual they mention that with the version 4 of the 3502 that the WB will automatically be set on the camera. Does the 3502 have to be v4 in order to work at all on the M8?

Thanks,

John

 

[Richard Marks]

John
I did look into the metz system but bought an SF24 instead. Its nothing like the flexibility or power of the metz but for fill in its very good. The TTL mode on it is still not that great though as it gives a very bright pre flash (just enough to make your subject blink) followed by shutter lag and finally the second flash. To avoid this I usually use it in Apperture non TTL mode and set it 2 stops under the exposure with slow sync to maximise ambient light.

Regarding the Metz, they are apparently going to make an SAC adapter fro the M8 but I cant imagine its going to be any time soon. (although the SF24 must be a metz incarnation)

Id stick with using your gun in non TTL mode and I reckon it will do just fine.

 

[zeitz]

John, you need to get the last two issues of LFI, Leica Fotographie International. Back issues can be ordered on line. There are extensive articles on the SF24 and the two Metz units that work with the M8. The articles explain in detail which modes work and which do not. How to use the units off the camera with an extension cord is also explained. Lots of sample photos too.

 

[Cindy Flood]

John,
I don't believe that the Metz uses ttl on the M8. There are two possible modes:
1. GNC (guide number control). (Turn the flash to the M mode using the mode control on the Mecablitz 54 and while the M is blinking turn the control wheel counterclockwise until GNC appears at the bottom of the screen. After about 5 seconds the M stops blinking and you are set to shoot. )
There is a pre-flash and then a flash after a delay.

2. Auto. Tell the Metz what the iso, aperture and zoom factor is.
I use Auto on mine because the pre-flash has too long of a lag and the subject thinks I have already taken the shot.

 

[john_nyc]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Cindy, I see what you mean. I think I'll use the A mode, also.

I guess I just assumed that the M8 would support TTL because my old M6TTL did and so does my M7.

I think I might upgrade my 3502 module to the current revision so I don't have to manually change the WB whenever I shoot with flash.

Thanks again,

John

 

[zeitz]

John, you do need to get the LFI articles. The Metz models that support TTL on the M8 are the 54 MZ-4I and the 76 MZ-5. I'm not at all a flash expert, so I don't know how these models compare to yours. The article states for the 54 MZ-4I that the mode is set to 'M', not to 'TTL as we would think'.

The preflash allows the camera to estimate the aperture, and preflash is not suitable for all subjects. (When the Tele-Elmarit is mounted, the outer sensor is covered, and the 6-bit encoding instructs the camera to operate differently.)

The articles are excellent.

 

[Richard Marks]

John, you do need to get the LFI articles. The Metz models that support TTL on the M8 are the 54 MZ-4I and the 76 MZ-5. I'm not at all a flash expert, so I don't know how these models compare to yours. The article states for the 54 MZ-4I that the mode is set to 'M', not to 'TTL as we would think'.

The preflash allows the camera to estimate the aperture, and preflash is not suitable for all subjects. (When the Tele-Elmarit is mounted, the outer sensor is covered, and the 6-bit encoding instructs the camera to operate differently.)

The articles are excellent.

Well I certainly dont fancy the 76MZ5 on a rangefinder. This leaves the 54MZ4i. Still quite a big gun on a rangefinder. I do not think the approrpiate SCA module is in existence to get full TTL with the M8, but even if it does, I suspect it will have the rather troublesome TTL pre flash.

Id stick with the non ttl modes. Much more predictable.

 

[john_nyc]

I picked up a new 3502 module today (it was a version 5).

Now the A mode works and it seems to set the WB automatically to flash.

I think the A mode is good enough for the how little I actually use a flash.

I also successfully hand coded two lenses with a Sharpie!

 

[Gilles L.]

I have the Metz 54-3 as well, but with the nikon sca on it. A mode works and the white balance looks alright as well. The only function that will not synchronize is the zoom. I was planning to order the SCA 3502-M4 module today to explore the TTL function of the M8.

The feb issue of LFI mentions that the TTL works with the Metz 54-4 and sca 3502-M4. I had also read that the 54-3 and 54-4 where pretty much the same and the difference only affected Nikon cameras.

John, is the version 5 of the 3502 you bought works in TTL? according to LFI, the 3502-M5 is for the Metz 76 and the 3502-M4 fits to the 54-4. Has anyone tried the 54-3 with the 3502-M4 sca? Adorama sells it just under $100, and I am now wondering if it worth the expense...

 

[john_nyc]

John, is the version 5 of the 3502 you bought works in TTL? according to LFI, the 3502-M5 is for the Metz 76 and the 3502-M4 fits to the 54-4. Has anyone tried the 54-3 with the 3502-M4 sca? Adorama sells it just under $100, and I am now wondering if it worth the expense...

Giles, it works but not in the same way that TTL works on the M6TTL and the M7 (and it's the GNC submode of M, not TTL). Like the others have said, it fires the flash once, which it meters off of (I think) and then fires it again for the shot. I'm not a fan of that. Like other posters, I will use the A mode (which the flash doing its own metering). I did some test exposures, and it seemed fine that way.

I don't use flash that often so to me it's not such a big deal. I can see the pre-flash confusing the subjects and resulting in eyes-closed photos, though.

This whole flash-on-M8 thing is confusing to me. I'm sure there was a good technical reason they couldn't do it, but I wish plain old TTL mode worked like it did on the M6TTL and the M7.

I will definitely try to pick up those back issues. Sound like those articles contain information they should have just put into the manual or made available for dl on the Leica website, though.

John

 

[boilerdoc2]

The SF 24D works fine on M8. Try it you'll like it!
Steve

 

[Grober]

The SF 24D works fine on M8. Try it you'll like it!
Steve

I would IF this Leica flash (or its replacement) had a tilting head. Simple request but Leica seems tone deaf on this isue. I am very adverse to direct flash WHEN that flash is mounted directly on the camera and its head cannot be tilted.

Come on, Leica: get a clue.

-g

 

[Artichoke]

it should be pointed out

it should be pointed out

that the Nikon SB 800 (and I believe many other flashes) work perfectly well in A mode with the M8
I have been getting outstanding results with mine both using a cable attachment & with the flash mounted directly
I do wish someone would make a compact, yet powerful flash with a bounce head for this camera

 

[john_nyc]

Indeed. The bounce head was why I bought the Metz in the first place, not because I needed a flash with more power.

 

[Richard Marks]

Hi
I use the SF24 for fill in for portraits if the available light is a bit harsh. I find direct flash under exposed about 2 stops (with slow sync set to maximum of 1/8s to maximise ambient light) is better than bounced flash. There is always the risk with bounced flash that the eyes have a rather ugly sunken appearence. Also their are prblems with the colour of what the flash is bounced off. The other issue of course with direct flash is red eye but provided the subject is less than 10 feet from the gun this is not much of a problem.

I never used flash at all on my film leica, but I am using it lots more on the M8, especially with my 90mm lens as a means of getting a sharper image.

On ballance the lightness of the SF24 compensates for some of its shortfalls if all you want is fill flash. Given the relatively poor TTL mode, I certainly would not turn down an SF20 if the price was right.

Attached fill flash with 90 2.8


http://realifeimages.co.uk

 

[Gilles L.]

Giles, it works but not in the same way that TTL works on the M6TTL and the M7 (and it's the GNC submode of M, not TTL). Like the others have said, it fires the flash once, which it meters off of (I think) and then fires it again for the shot. I'm not a fan of that. Like other posters, I will use the A mode (which the flash doing its own metering). I did some test exposures, and it seemed fine that way.

I don't use flash that often so to me it's not such a big deal. I can see the pre-flash confusing the subjects and resulting in eyes-closed photos, though.

This whole flash-on-M8 thing is confusing to me. I'm sure there was a good technical reason they couldn't do it, but I wish plain old TTL mode worked like it did on the M6TTL and the M7.

I will definitely try to pick up those back issues. Sound like those articles contain information they should have just put into the manual or made available for dl on the Leica website, though.

John

Thank you John; the Metz 54 with Nikon sca works perfectly well in A mode, so I have given up on the idea to purchase the Leica sca adapter and spend an extra $100 for the TTL mode. I only use the flash on occasions so the A mode is more than enough. This is the first time I use a flash on a M, it never crossed my mind to put one on my M7. The M8 is an incredibly capable camera; I bought it as a rangefinder for specific shooting, but I has replaced both my M7 and DSLR.

Do pick up the articles in LFI, they are very good, but perhaps useless if you use the A mode.

Best, Gilles