akptc
Shoot first, think later
Hi, I just got this CLE today. In "A"utomatic mode, the shutter seems to open for quite a bit too long for any given exposure. I am new to this camera and the manual is in the mail, so I am figuring things out on my own.
Basically, I loaded ISO 400 film, set the dial to 400, and left it on automatic. Pressing the shutter half way will, for example, cause 2 red dots to appear in the viewfinder next to 60-30, which makes sense to me. But when I fully depress the shutter release, it opens for at least one second. If I point the lens directly at the lamp, it's more like 3/4 of a second, even wide open.
I am calling on all CLE owners for help - what I am doing wrong? When I set the exposure manually, it does what it's supposed. It's only the "A" mode that doesn't seem to work properly.
Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
Basically, I loaded ISO 400 film, set the dial to 400, and left it on automatic. Pressing the shutter half way will, for example, cause 2 red dots to appear in the viewfinder next to 60-30, which makes sense to me. But when I fully depress the shutter release, it opens for at least one second. If I point the lens directly at the lamp, it's more like 3/4 of a second, even wide open.
I am calling on all CLE owners for help - what I am doing wrong? When I set the exposure manually, it does what it's supposed. It's only the "A" mode that doesn't seem to work properly.
Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
Graham Line
Well-known
Paging Dr. Matherson.
My guess is there's some oxidation in the contacts under the shutter speed dial.
Are the red diodes in the left side of the finder doing a wierd dance, too?
This shows up in cameras that haven't been used much. Sometimes you can clean it up by rotating the dial back and forth several times. I'm assuming you've cleaned the battery box contents with a cotton bud and a whiff of alcohol, and installed fresh batteries.
My guess is there's some oxidation in the contacts under the shutter speed dial.
Are the red diodes in the left side of the finder doing a wierd dance, too?
This shows up in cameras that haven't been used much. Sometimes you can clean it up by rotating the dial back and forth several times. I'm assuming you've cleaned the battery box contents with a cotton bud and a whiff of alcohol, and installed fresh batteries.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Joe, thank you for the reply. There sure is a lot of dancing on the left side of the finder, all in red. Not always, just every oher shot or so, that I can see. I've cleaned the battery contacts. The batteries are the onces it arived with (battery check lights up the red light on the front of the camera), will try new batteries tomorrow. I've rotated the dial a few times, so far it hasn't helped. I am starting to worry I bought a lemon..
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
on the CLE there is no 'depressing the shutter release half-way,' you simply lay your finger on the shutter release button to electrically make a connection. You may try cleaning the light meter sensor. Also, not all lenses will work on the CLE some will block the sensor. What lens are you using?
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akptc
Shoot first, think later
Ray, thanks for the clarification, now that I look at the release button, it makes sense. I am using the 40mm Rokkor that came with it, no shade.
Btw, how do you clean the meter? Are we talking taking the top off?
Btw, how do you clean the meter? Are we talking taking the top off?
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
The 40 is definitely OK.
It's odd that your meter appears to read correctly, so it's possible the meter isn't dirty or blocked. You may want to do a visual inspection with a flashlight and a mirror. You'll probably need a little inspection mirror (like the dentist use) to get a good look at it. You can get them in the tool department at Home Depot.
I'll reference this great CamerQuest PAGE; it's a great CLE resource
If you look on the CameraQuest page, the fourth image down, shows the front of a CLE with the lens off. At the bottom of the opening (where the lens goes) you'll see a little 'U' shaped cutout. That's where the sensor is (I wish I didn't have film in my CLE's, I could verify that). Rather than go at it with canned air or something, just do a visual check with the mirror. It could be that it's dirty or that there's something blocking it (a piece of film or something).
Most of the problems I've had with the CLE's AE is getting it to read/display again, once it is taken off AE.
.
It's odd that your meter appears to read correctly, so it's possible the meter isn't dirty or blocked. You may want to do a visual inspection with a flashlight and a mirror. You'll probably need a little inspection mirror (like the dentist use) to get a good look at it. You can get them in the tool department at Home Depot.
I'll reference this great CamerQuest PAGE; it's a great CLE resource
If you look on the CameraQuest page, the fourth image down, shows the front of a CLE with the lens off. At the bottom of the opening (where the lens goes) you'll see a little 'U' shaped cutout. That's where the sensor is (I wish I didn't have film in my CLE's, I could verify that). Rather than go at it with canned air or something, just do a visual check with the mirror. It could be that it's dirty or that there's something blocking it (a piece of film or something).
Most of the problems I've had with the CLE's AE is getting it to read/display again, once it is taken off AE.
.
Graham Line
Well-known
Chances are it's not a lemon, if the lights are lighting and the shutter is working. Wait until you unscrew the rewind lever by turning it the wrong way 
The one I bought maybe 8-10 years ago had sat on a shelf. I ended up spending about 80 bucks to have the light seals replaced and the shutter speed dial contacts cleaned. It hasn't needed any attention since.
The one I bought maybe 8-10 years ago had sat on a shelf. I ended up spending about 80 bucks to have the light seals replaced and the shutter speed dial contacts cleaned. It hasn't needed any attention since.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Ray, I've taken a couple of shots that show what I can see w/out the dentist's mirror. It looks Ok to me although there seems to be one rather irregural-edged strip along the bottom. There is movement of this mirror(?) when I depress the release button.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Joe, I sure hope you are right and thanks for the encouragement. Btw, do you recall where you had it cleaned?
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Andy, that does look clean and unobstructed.
I checked my camera out and I have the same little strip, although yours appears to be a little higher on the right side, than on the left.
I unloaded my camera to test the movement of the mirror. Mine does not move, but it looks like it does, because I can see the reflection of the shutter.
.
I checked my camera out and I have the same little strip, although yours appears to be a little higher on the right side, than on the left.
I unloaded my camera to test the movement of the mirror. Mine does not move, but it looks like it does, because I can see the reflection of the shutter.
.
1) are the meter readings on manual the same as on AE ?? test on an evenly lit out of focus area
2) if different, or if both are off, the circuit board is most likely out -- and there is no cure except using the CLE as a very nice paperweight or ash tray.
3) still, the problem may be curable -- but maybe not -- if you want to invest in a CLA
4) I really like the CLE, but I get tired and frustrated of returning CLE's which can not be repaired because the circuit board has died.
Stephen
2) if different, or if both are off, the circuit board is most likely out -- and there is no cure except using the CLE as a very nice paperweight or ash tray.
3) still, the problem may be curable -- but maybe not -- if you want to invest in a CLA
4) I really like the CLE, but I get tired and frustrated of returning CLE's which can not be repaired because the circuit board has died.
Stephen
Hi Andy-- Congrats on the "new" CLE, and I'd guess Joe is right. I've had mine since new, and about every 10 years it needs to have the electrical contacts under the shutter speed dial cleaned. I've not watched it done but do think it takes just routine skill for the repairman.
My symptoms were unusually long shutter speeds, irregular, and stuck or flickering diodes, all on A. Sometimes it was ok, sometimes I had to turn it to a manual shutter speed to get the second shutter curtain to close. This was just unworkable, so I pulled the roll of film, switched it to my "new" Contax G1, and took the CLE to my local camera repair guy for a contact-cleaning. Here's an example that didn't turn out as expected, but not bad either for a mistake!
My symptoms were unusually long shutter speeds, irregular, and stuck or flickering diodes, all on A. Sometimes it was ok, sometimes I had to turn it to a manual shutter speed to get the second shutter curtain to close. This was just unworkable, so I pulled the roll of film, switched it to my "new" Contax G1, and took the CLE to my local camera repair guy for a contact-cleaning. Here's an example that didn't turn out as expected, but not bad either for a mistake!
laptoprob
back to basics
CameraQuest said:
Too bad there is no manual reading on the CLE.
Good test would be to check how the shutter speeds work in manual. Are the irragularities only in AE? Sounds like contacts to me.
cheers, Rob.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Ray, thank you for checking, looks like we’ve eliminated one possible fault (and I learned about optical illusion
Stephen, the more I play with the CLE, the more erratic the “dancing” of the red dots becomes, it seems. There also seems to be a pattern – when I first touch the release button, the red dots are typically (not always) quite erratic. When the button is almost fully depressed, a single red dot “falls” all the way to the bottom of the scale. Once I move the dial away from “A”, the red dots disappear – no metering in manual mode? – so I could not compare the meter behavior in both modes. Btw, would you consider looking at this if I shipped the camera to you?
Doug, thanks for your reply. It seems if I am lucky, it’s the shutter speed contacts. If not – I just bought an expensive ashtray Is your local repair guy still around? I am quite anxious to get this fixed…
Rob, only the AE mode seems to have problems. Once the dial is off “A”, the shutter speeds sound just right.
I received this reply from DAG “The meter will indicate the exposure but if you don't have film in the camera the shutter will open & the meter system will take over & read what ever is in the film plane. So if you have no film in the camera the meter system will read off the black pressure plate & will recompute the exposure to a very long one. But if there's film in the camera & the ASA dial was set for that film the shutter will open & the meter system will read off the film & should not change the exposure that was given in the finder. But you said that you had film in the camera even though it sounds like there wasn't any film in the camera. Make sure the film is fully in the film plane by setting the camera on B, remove the lens, shoot the camera & you should be able to see film in the film frame. If there is film in the correct place & you're still having problems I don't think I can fix the camera since parts are no longer available,”
I checked the film – it was loaded properly. But – funny thing – without the lens mounted, the shutter speeds in AE mode seem more responsive to varying light conditions – no longer is the shutter stuck on ~1 second but still sounds a bit too slow, i.e. the meter would show 500 but the shutter sounds like 1/30 sec. Once the lens is back on, the problem returns.
Stephen, the more I play with the CLE, the more erratic the “dancing” of the red dots becomes, it seems. There also seems to be a pattern – when I first touch the release button, the red dots are typically (not always) quite erratic. When the button is almost fully depressed, a single red dot “falls” all the way to the bottom of the scale. Once I move the dial away from “A”, the red dots disappear – no metering in manual mode? – so I could not compare the meter behavior in both modes. Btw, would you consider looking at this if I shipped the camera to you?
Doug, thanks for your reply. It seems if I am lucky, it’s the shutter speed contacts. If not – I just bought an expensive ashtray
Is your local repair guy still around? I am quite anxious to get this fixed…Rob, only the AE mode seems to have problems. Once the dial is off “A”, the shutter speeds sound just right.
I received this reply from DAG “The meter will indicate the exposure but if you don't have film in the camera the shutter will open & the meter system will take over & read what ever is in the film plane. So if you have no film in the camera the meter system will read off the black pressure plate & will recompute the exposure to a very long one. But if there's film in the camera & the ASA dial was set for that film the shutter will open & the meter system will read off the film & should not change the exposure that was given in the finder. But you said that you had film in the camera even though it sounds like there wasn't any film in the camera. Make sure the film is fully in the film plane by setting the camera on B, remove the lens, shoot the camera & you should be able to see film in the film frame. If there is film in the correct place & you're still having problems I don't think I can fix the camera since parts are no longer available,”
I checked the film – it was loaded properly. But – funny thing – without the lens mounted, the shutter speeds in AE mode seem more responsive to varying light conditions – no longer is the shutter stuck on ~1 second but still sounds a bit too slow, i.e. the meter would show 500 but the shutter sounds like 1/30 sec. Once the lens is back on, the problem returns.
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laptoprob
back to basics
You tried other batteries? I have the SLR X700 as well, with exactly the same metering and AE system. The erratic display readings could be contacts or battery.
DAG's comment about shutter time without film is correct.
cheers, Rob.
DAG's comment about shutter time without film is correct.
cheers, Rob.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Rob, I tried it with new 1.4V silver oxide batteries, same behavior. I wonder how risky it would be to open up the dial for cleaning (not having done this before)?
laptoprob
back to basics
Just opening and browsing is not too difficult or dangerous. Be careful for possible small jumping stuff like springs and balls!
Never had problems on my SLR's. They are quite similar in build.
Somewhere on the net must be info on opening a CLE.
good luck, Rob.
Never had problems on my SLR's. They are quite similar in build.
Somewhere on the net must be info on opening a CLE.
good luck, Rob.
dgray
Established
DAG is making an important point to remember with the CLE. The meter takes an initial reading as you point it at something and lights up the light to tell you what the shutter will be. BUT, this is not the reading that is actually USED by the meter to determine the final shutter value. The CLE uses off the film metering, SO, the real shutter speed is set when the shutter is opened and the meter instantly takes a reading off the light hitting the piece of film itself and then sets the shutter based on that. This is not a defect, but a feature to give more accurate metering, but there can be quite a discrepancy between the initial reading and the real reading, especially if you don't have film in it and it is reading off the black film pressure plate. This got annoying for me when shooting in low light and you are right at the edge of handholdability (1/15 or so) and then the real shutter speed is a full stop slower and the shot is ruined. If you are moving the camera and pointing it away from the light source as you push the shutter button to test it, the initial reading can be even more off from the final speed. This might not be the only problem that is going on, especially if the lights are moving erratically as you hold the camera steady at a uniformly lit subject, but it can account for the different shutter speeds.
Graham Line
Well-known
I had the cleaning and resealing done at http://www.advancecamera.com/ in the Portland/Beaverton, Ore. area. The lead technician is Dave.
You're getting a lot of good information. Search this site and www.photo.net for "Minolta CLE' threads as well.
Joel Matherson in Australia seems to have a line on CLE parts supplies, but I haven't noticed him posting here lately.
The last machines I 'opened up' for extensive work were a '72 MG Midget and a '71 Fiat 128, so I can't help you there.
You're getting a lot of good information. Search this site and www.photo.net for "Minolta CLE' threads as well.
Joel Matherson in Australia seems to have a line on CLE parts supplies, but I haven't noticed him posting here lately.
The last machines I 'opened up' for extensive work were a '72 MG Midget and a '71 Fiat 128, so I can't help you there.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Thank you everyone for great tips and background info, I truly appreciate it. I've been scouring the web for any CLE repair info but it’s scarce, much more so than for any other camera I looked up.
I left a message with Advace Camera (Kathy), hope they can help. At this point I don’t think I have the courage to open up the CLE by myself, especially without any diagrams to refer to.
This is huge deal for me because the CLE “form factor” seems to be custom made for my hands and the renagefinder is just spectacular, I really want to keep this one.
Thanks again.
I left a message with Advace Camera (Kathy), hope they can help. At this point I don’t think I have the courage to open up the CLE by myself, especially without any diagrams to refer to.
This is huge deal for me because the CLE “form factor” seems to be custom made for my hands and the renagefinder is just spectacular, I really want to keep this one.
Thanks again.