Minolta CLE Auto mode stuck?

[Doug]

DAG is making an important point to remember with the CLE. The meter takes an initial reading as you point it at something and lights up the light to tell you what the shutter will be. BUT, this is not the reading that is actually USED by the meter to determine the final shutter value. The CLE uses off the film metering, SO, the real shutter speed is set when the shutter is opened and the meter instantly takes a reading off the light hitting the piece of film itself and then sets the shutter based on that. This is not a defect, but a feature to give more accurate metering, but there can be quite a discrepancy between the initial reading and the real reading, especially if you don't have film in it and it is reading off the black film pressure plate. This got annoying for me when shooting in low light and you are right at the edge of handholdability (1/15 or so) and then the real shutter speed is a full stop slower and the shot is ruined. ....

I think it's worth emphasizing that this camera has a focal plane shutter, and for any shutter speed faster than 1/60 the second shutter curtain is released to begin closing before the first curtain is done opening. At high speeds there's effectively only a narrow open slit between the curtains transiting the width of the film gate. Therefore, and please correct my logic if I'm off here, the metering system doesn't have the opportunity to adjust the shutter speed during the exposure and uses the earlier reading off the shutter curtain.

I note dgray's stated experience is with low light and slow shutter speeds (slower than 1/60), where the first shutter curtain has finished its opening travel, the full film frame is receiving exposure, and there's an opportunity for the meter system to reconsider the instant it begins closing the second curtain. The metering system is very quick at making such decisions, even to the extent of quenching a dedicated flash based on reading reflected light off the film during the flash, and integrating this with the ambient light level.

Good luck with your CLE, Andy; it certainly is a little gem. Mine has been my favorite 35mm RF "forever". 😀

 

[laptoprob]

Andy, I posted this comment earlier in the wrong thread: I trust your 1,4 volt battery comment was a typo? The camera really likes 2x 1,5V to operate properly!

cheers, Rob.

 

[akptc]

Rob, I replied in the wrong thread as well 🙂. Basically, I had no idea what type of battery it needed as the ones it came with were not marked sufficiently to tell. I only had the 1.4v and inserted 2. The camera seemed to "work" but I went back to the original ones.

I just dropped off the CLE at a local shop I found after some painful research (why don't photo shops advertise more aggressively?). The owner of Kelly Camera (Mesa, AZ) took a good look and was confident this should be an easy fix. Crossing my fingers now...

 

[akptc]

Doug, I must say that I had to read you last post twice to visualize the idea (I have much to learn). It sounds like a pretty complex metering-shutter setup in the CLE. To me it's another reason to not try any home repairs.

The thing with the CLE is that, while I enjoy my G2 because it gives me the confidence that most shots will come out at least ok and it handles extremely well, the CLE seems to be simply a perfect match to my hands and eyesight. The camera is superbly enjoyable to hold, dial and shoot. Hence the reason I was panicking about the AE problem.

Now my money is on Kelly Camera of Mesa, Arizona 🙂

 

[yossarian]

Andy,
You've received some marvellously detailed information here, but I need to correct one thing. The CLE's circuitry was shared not with the X-700, but rather the XG-7,
which was also prone to the dancing LED syndrome.

But Don Goldberg should be able to square it away if all else fails. His father Norman is my favorite Superhero: Camera Test Man. He did those great stripdown reports
for Popular Photography for about two decades. All the later tests included a photo
of an "exploded view" of every single part; he disassembled, then reassembled every
camera he tested! He was also a great admirer of the Summicron 40.

As you can tell, we're all pulling for you and hoping for a painless and speedy fix.

Fred

 

[akptc]

Fred, you are right - I am simply amazed at the wealth of information I've received through this thread. While I totally blame this forum for enticing me to spend huge amounts of money on photo equipment 😀, I also count my blessings for having access to such concentration of expertise and for free(!) I don’t care what other people say about photographers, you guys are great! 🙂

 

[yossarian]

"Enabler" might be the word. I've certainly been grabbing things up at an alarming
rate. But it's fun!

 

[akptc]

CLE is now fixed

CLE is now fixed

Just picked it up from Kelly Camera Repair in Mesa, AZ. The bill reads "repaired shutter assembly / overhauled meter / aperture / lubed / calibrated all to GWO". The shutter now works great and everything else is like butter, all for under $100.. I feel like I just won a lottery 😀

Btw, very nice people at Kelly Camera - friendly, no hustle, took the time to answer my questions. I have a feeling I will be visiting there again soon (you should see the stuff they have on their shelves 🙂)

 

[Graham Line]

Glad it turned out well for you. The price seems reasonable. The CLE is a very rewarding body to use.
Is there a 'sticky' place here to post good experiences with RF repair people? They are out there, but not all that easy to locate sometimes.

 

[akptc]

Is there a 'sticky' place here to post good experiences with RF repair people? They are out there, but not all that easy to locate sometimes.

- Don't know but there should be, I think. I'd gladly recommend this shop.

 

[yossarian]

Andy,

GREAT news. I'd say you've found a keeper with Kelly Camera. Please convey to them that an old veteran of independent camera stores hopes they can continue
against the onslaught of Mall Wart.

Fred

 

[Little Prince]

Andy, I've been following your travails with the CLE recently. Unfortunatey I didn't have anything useful to contribute, but I'm certainly bookmarking Kelly Camera of Mesa, AZ. A good possibility for any CLE problems I might encounter. Thanks for the report. Be sure to follow up on how the camera holds up.

 

[akptc]

Hi Anand, I started my 1st roll today, will post if anything gets exposed right 🙂 Btw, I am almost as happy to have found the camera shop as I am to have the CLE back in working order. It’s a good thing the store is almost an hour’s drive from my house though 🙂

 

[dgray]

That's great news - I really miss my old CLE now. Doug your comments have got me to wondering. I know that the phenomenon I described is real and happened to me often, and that the CLE has off the film plane metering, but the point about the focal plane shutter is a good one and baffles me how the camera does it. I remember Cameraquest having something about this on the site - maybe I'll go read that again sometime.

 

[Doug]

Btw, very nice people at Kelly Camera - friendly, no hustle, took the time to answer my questions. I have a feeling I will be visiting there again soon (you should see the stuff they have on their shelves 🙂)

Wonderful to have a good repair shop nearby! You might dig around in your closet for stuff that needs a CLA and take advantage of the opportunity. My local guy just closed up shop and moved several states away to handle the estate of his parents who just passed away. Fortunately, I got almost everthing that needed attention attended to...

 

[akptc]

Well, I do have this "immaculate" Olympus Pen EES-2 with the aperture stuck shut...

 

[Palaeoboy]

I missed a CLE thread, I must be blind LOL.

My first thought when I read you just received the camera that day and the shutter was staying open was the off the film plane metering. It meters off the curtains as in indicator and then meters off the film during exposure. When you do it with no film in the shutter stays open. The eratic LED problem common with the CLE would show itself if it was the cause of the slow shutter speeds. For example the arrow at the bottom lights up and jams there and the shutter then stays open for ages if you trigger the shutter. If the readings are correct then its usually a shutter adjustment problem rather than the electronics going whacky.

I notice that you have had someone look at the camera and cost under 100 dollars. I dare say the camera was in fairly good condition just minor adjustments for that kind of money. Im sure you will enjoy your CLE its a great camera. My favorite rangefinder in fact. I often read that the R3A is a better replacement but its not. No 28mm framelines being the major difficiency. No TTL flash, not as compact a design. Better wearing finish. No there isnt a replacement for the CLE just yet. Now that Minolta is gone no CLE2 .....Sob!

 

[akptc]

QUOTE=Palaeoboy]... I notice that you have had someone look at the camera and cost under 100 dollars. I dare say the camera was in fairly good condition just minor adjustments for that kind of money. [/QUOTE]

Joel, I also thought it was just a few minor adjustments, basedon the info I received from the previous owner. But given that home-repair was out of the question for me, I think the $100 was money well spent. Knowing that lots of folks consider the CLE a top rangefinder + having one => cloud nine for me.

Of course now I am looking at getting a new 28mm lens and all sorts of accessories/toys to go with it 😀

 

[Doug]

Hi Joel -- I do agree with you that there's not (yet?) an equal to the CLE as a replacement. I think the new Zeiss Ikon might come the closest, but it isn't as compact and innocent-looking.

My first thought when I read you just received the camera that day and the shutter was staying open was the off the film plane metering. It meters off the curtains as in indicator and then meters off the film during exposure. When you do it with no film in the shutter stays open.

As you may have since read in my reply above, this is true only for shutter speeds slower than the synch speed; otherwise the second curtain has already started to move before the first curtain has reached the end of its travel. The curtains move across the film plane at a fixed velocity. The faster the shutter speed setting, the narrower the gap between the two shutter curtains, and the less of the film is "seen" at any one instant by the meter. Under these circumstances, the meter system just doesn't have the opportunity to reconsider the second curtain's starting time. Of course at shutter speed settings slower than 1/60 sec the electronic "clockwork" gets involved, it DOES have that opportunity, and you are quite right! 🙂

As fate would have it, my CLE is empty of film at the moment. I was a litte shocked to see that, but it did offer the possibility of testing metering off the pressure plate! Yep, lining up an exposure with the diode display indicating 1/4 sec, the actual exposure was much longer. Moving the camera to face a bright area caused the shutter to close right away. But when the indicated exposure was 1/125 sec, then the shutter ran at about that speed as best I could tell. I'm convinced the camera uses the pre-reading off the shutter curtains for fast shutter speeds, and off the film only for slow (and flash quenching), the dividing point being the 1/60 synch speed, the fastest speed at which the film gate is fully open.

 

[akptc]

CLE first test shots & Orange Juice

CLE first test shots & Orange Juice

The good news is that a little orange juice on the rangefinder glass apparently won't slow down the CLE 🙂 Right after being overhauled, my “new” CLE met my 3-year old, with predictable results. The camera kept on going, thanks to Daddy’s lightning-fast wiping action. An (unenforceable) prohibition of all drinks in the car followed.

The other good news – the shutter and meter work really well. I shot a short roll with the 40mm lens mostly at dusk and inside a store and everything seems to work just fine. I’ve included two test images from that 1st roll (crappy shots, I now, but definite proof the overhaul was worth it).

Thanks again for everyone’s help and encouragement.