Minolta Flash Meter V and spot metering viewfinders: exposure compensation necessary?

[AgBrPeter]

I have just bought the Minolta Viewfinders 5° and 10°II for use with my Flash Meter V. They are still in the mail, so I haven't received them yet. My question is: will I need to make any compensation for the readings with either of these viewfinders attached?

I read a thread in this forum from 2010 about the 5° Viewfinder and Autometer III. In one of the answers, it was explained that:

The 5 degree bayonet attachment.....was for the Flash Meter III, Flash Meter IV, and Flash Meter V. With one of those three meters, there's no compensation needed, the meter reads accurately with the attachment.

However, the manual for the Viewfinder 5°/10°II (from the fantastic collection provided by Mr Butkus) explains that, for some combinations, compensation is necessary. However, I really don't know how to interpret the exposure compensation table in this manual:
The first column says "As displayed on LCD panel" (so, no compensation) in the case of both viewfinders, but it doesn't say for which light meters.
The next column says that in the case of Viewfinder 5° and e.g. Flash Meter III, you should "Change displayed value by 1.2 stops", whereas no change is necessary with Viewfinder 10°II.
The last column indicates that the 5° cannot be used on Flash Meter II, but the 10°II can. However, a 3 stop compensation is necessary in this case.

Clearly, it is an older manual, since the Flash Meters IV and V are not mentioned. So, I really don't know what to expect when using these viewfinders with my Flash Meter V.

Many thanks for any replies which can clarify this.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[AgBrPeter]

UPDATE:

I think I found the answer. The upper half of the viewfinder manual is in Japanese, and while I unfortunately can’t read or understand this language, I think the first column in the exposure compensation table refers to Flash Meter IV and Autometer IVF: no change necessary for either viewfinder. So, I guess that this is also valid for Flash Meter V.

 

[sevo]

From the Flashmeter III on, the exposure compensation is automatically set by a pin tracking a recess in the bayonet flange of their dedicated accessories - so if you have a FM V, and FM III or up accessories, you do not need to compensate. Earlier Minolta meters did not have that pin, and required manual compensation. As accessories made for them lack that recess, these also need manual correction when used on later meters.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

From the Flashmeter III on, the exposure compensation is automatically set by a pin tracking a recess in the bayonet flange of their dedicated accessories - so if you have a FM V, and FM III or up accessories, you do not need to compensate. Earlier Minolta meters did not have that pin, and required manual compensation. As accessories made for them lack that recess, these also need manual correction when used on later meters.

Also, the Autometer III and Autometer IIIF only give automatic compensation for the 10 degree II finder. The 5 degree finder requires a compensation on those meters. The Flash meter IV and V and the Autometer IVF and VF all compensate automatically for both spot finders.

 

[AgBrPeter]

Many thanks for these explanations.

I have also bought the 40° reflected metering attachment, which I received yesterday. I did a test with both incident metering (dome attached) against an 18% grey card and reflected metering (40° attachment) off the same card. Results were sytematically within 0.2 stops difference. This may be due lack of precision on my behalf. I did notice the pin being depressed when using the 40° attachment.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Many thanks for these explanations.

I have also bought the 40° reflected metering attachment, which I received yesterday. I did a test with both incident metering (dome attached) against an 18% grey card and reflected metering (40° attachment) off the same card. Results were sytematically within 0.2 stops difference. This may be due lack of precision on my behalf. I did notice the pin being depressed when using the 40° attachment.

Best regards,
Peter

The 40 degree attachment and the 10 degree II finder both requires the same compensation, so the pin is depressed by both. The pin tells the meter that you have one of those attachments installed.

The 5 degree finder requires a different compensation value. It also pushes in the reflected light comp. pin, but also pushes a second button located on the outside of the bayonet mount for attachments. Its a small black plastic square button. When both that and the pin are pressed, the meter knows you have the 5 degree attachment installed.

What I've written is true also of the Flash Meter IV and the Autometer IVF and Autometer VF. All three meters have both the pin and the second compensation button.

The Autometer III and Autometer IIIF only have the pin for the 40 degree and 10 degree II attachments; they do not have the second button needed for the 5 degree finder, which is why manual compensation is needed with those models using the 5 degree finder.

 

[AgBrPeter]

The 5 degree finder requires a different compensation value. It also pushes in the reflected light comp. pin, but also pushes a second button located on the outside of the bayonet mount for attachments. Its a small black plastic square button. When both that and the pin are pressed, the meter knows you have the 5 degree attachment installed.

Many thanks. Interesting. I received the 5° viewfinder yesterday. After reading your post, I located the second compensation button which sits close to the attachment mount's outer rim, like you said, at about "5 o'clock" when you have the meter facing you. I can also see the breech lock ring of the viewfinder pressing on that small button, so everything seems to be functioning as it should. I have not tried any test metering against a grey card yet, though. However, I was surprised to discover that there is no way of making the viewfinder stay "upright" when you mount it on the meter. Unless you find some way of propping it up, e.g. with a small piece of cardboard, it invariably falls down to one side. Is it normal that it is this loose? Well, I'll probably find out when I receive the 10°II viewfinder.

Again, thanks for the replies and great insight.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[sevo]

Is it normal that it is this loose?

No - that is, it will never be entirely tight, it is only positioned by friction, but it should not be entirely loose either. Check whether the three small screws inside the bayonet have come unscrewed. If they are tight and there is no friction at all, the friction mechanism might have worn out, or a past owner applied too much/the wrong lubricant.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Many thanks. Interesting. I received the 5° viewfinder yesterday. After reading your post, I located the second compensation button which sits close to the attachment mount's outer rim, like you said, at about "5 o'clock" when you have the meter facing you. I can also see the breech lock ring of the viewfinder pressing on that small button, so everything seems to be functioning as it should. I have not tried any test metering against a grey card yet, though. However, I was surprised to discover that there is no way of making the viewfinder stay "upright" when you mount it on the meter. Unless you find some way of propping it up, e.g. with a small piece of cardboard, it invariably falls down to one side. Is it normal that it is this loose? Well, I'll probably find out when I receive the 10°II viewfinder.

Again, thanks for the replies and great insight.

Best regards,

Peter

The problem you're seeing is a historical design problem. The two viewfinders were designed originally for the Flash Meter IV, which has a rectangular metering head. When attached to the Flashmeter IV, the meter's shape keeps the viewfinder from rotating and because the IV's meter cell is off-center on the rectangular head, you can attach the finder pointing up or pointing to one side. Either way, it stays where you positioned it.

The Flashmeter V and the Autometer IVF and VF were designed with round metering heads. Because the finders were designed to be kept from rotating by the shape of the meter they were originally designed for, they do not have a built-in way to keep them from rotating on the later meters.

 

[AgBrPeter]

Thanks, @sevo, @Chriscrawfordphoto. Very useful replies! So, I realise that these viewfinders were not designed for round-headed meters, but is there no way friction can be increased? My 5° viewfinder is completely loose.

Regards,
Peter

 

[sevo]

Thanks, @sevo, @Chriscrawfordphoto. Very useful replies! So, I realise that these viewfinders were not designed for round-headed meters, but is there no way friction can be increased? My 5° viewfinder is completely loose.

You might try to disassemble it and add a cardboard washer or two. I've never done that on a FM viewfinder, but what works on RB67 bayonets (which use a related principle) ought to work here as well.

 

[AgBrPeter]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. For the time being, however, the problem doesn't bother me too much, since it is possible to use the viewfinder rotated 90° either left or right. I might take it to a camera repair guy close to where I live to hear what he thinks.