Dralowid
Michael
I am about to start selling off equipment again.
Taking into account the above I will classify condition as ranging from 'almost unrecognisable' through to 'dog rough'
Michael
(apols to canines but they will understand...at least I haven't mentioned any parts of a badgers anatomy)
Taking into account the above I will classify condition as ranging from 'almost unrecognisable' through to 'dog rough'
Michael
(apols to canines but they will understand...at least I haven't mentioned any parts of a badgers anatomy)
Glass Addict
Established
A picture is worth a thousand words. Everyone has different standards so judging it on your own is the best way.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Personally, I've not had problems with the various categories. There are quite a few ebay sellers who clearly indicate how they rate their merchandise.
1joel1
Well-known
+1, though there should be no reference to age. Just like a mint coin from the 1800s is rare, so is a mint Leica M3. If you want to say that the lens looks good for its age, fine, but ratings should be objective and have no dependence on age.
JMO,
Joel
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Two words for you: Caveat emptor.
Of course people are going to "puff" the quality of the wares they are selling. I remember an OM-2 I once bought off ebay, billed as being in "excellent working condition." When I got the camera, it looked like it had been used as a hockey puck, the mirror was hopelessly jammed up, and no function worked properly, even with a new battery installed...
Of course people are going to "puff" the quality of the wares they are selling. I remember an OM-2 I once bought off ebay, billed as being in "excellent working condition." When I got the camera, it looked like it had been used as a hockey puck, the mirror was hopelessly jammed up, and no function worked properly, even with a new battery installed...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Nothing wrong in my book with: Looks mint, doesn't work.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Vics
Veteran
I think "mint" should mean just what it says. The item should be new-in-the-box where condition is concerned. "Like new" would be the next notch down.
jljohn
Well-known
I did not read all three pages of posts, but let me toss this out there. As I understand it, the term "mint" comes to us courtesy for numismatics (coin collectors) and refers to the state of a coin when it left the mint. Now, over time collectors began to recognize a ranges of mint state coins. As grading services developed (PCGS, NGC, etc) they also codified a range of mint states: MS60--MS70. The PCGS defines Mint State as the following:
Mint State
The term corresponding to the numerical grades MS-60 through MS-70, used to denote a business strike coin that never has been in circulation. A Mint State coin can range from one that is covered with marks (MS-60) to a flawless example (MS-70).
So, recognizing that we don't have a camera grading authority, if we use the term as a parallel to coin collectors, we would have to say that a mint condition camera has not been used. It can have a range of marks from its owner taking it out and caressing it
, but it cannot have seen use (i.e. placed in circulation).
Now that is all cosmetics. With cameras, there is also the functionality issue that does not exist with coins. I think all cameras should be dual graded--cosmetics and operational condition. A mint/mint camera should never have seen general use and should function as new. This is where it gets real tricky with old cameras. Mint/mint M3's should be REALLY hard to come by. Basically, it would be a camera that looks like it just came from the factory and has not been take out and about shooting, yet it needs to have been taken out of the case and had the shutter speed cycles enough to keep it operationally fresh. I doubt very many of these exist at all! (Oh, and that L seal better still be intact.)
Mint State
The term corresponding to the numerical grades MS-60 through MS-70, used to denote a business strike coin that never has been in circulation. A Mint State coin can range from one that is covered with marks (MS-60) to a flawless example (MS-70).
So, recognizing that we don't have a camera grading authority, if we use the term as a parallel to coin collectors, we would have to say that a mint condition camera has not been used. It can have a range of marks from its owner taking it out and caressing it
, but it cannot have seen use (i.e. placed in circulation).Now that is all cosmetics. With cameras, there is also the functionality issue that does not exist with coins. I think all cameras should be dual graded--cosmetics and operational condition. A mint/mint camera should never have seen general use and should function as new. This is where it gets real tricky with old cameras. Mint/mint M3's should be REALLY hard to come by. Basically, it would be a camera that looks like it just came from the factory and has not been take out and about shooting, yet it needs to have been taken out of the case and had the shutter speed cycles enough to keep it operationally fresh. I doubt very many of these exist at all! (Oh, and that L seal better still be intact.)
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
So, recognizing that we don't have a camera grading authority, if we use the term as a parallel to coin collectors, we would have to say that a mint condition camera has not been used. It can have a range of marks from its owner taking it out and caressing it
I have seen a camera (Leica M9) advertised as mint in the RFF classifieds with the remarks, "Only used in the studio." LOL. No lie!!!
Also recently got a really nice M3 DS that just got serviced by Leica that displays a fresh L-seal. I was told the prism was resilvered and the VF'er displays a brightness that I've never seen on any other M3. The film advance was initially rather stiff and the shutter about as loud as an SLR, but the M3 now is buttery smooth. I suspect that it got new gears for the film advance.
This M3 is a very nice camera, but not mint cosmetically, but fuctionally it is mint.
Cal
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
I collected coins when I was a kid. In the world of numismatics, the term "mint" meant that the coin had never been circulated. It was basically right off the coin press. A mint coin is far more beautiful than a 'new' coin you might get straight from the bank.
So, regarding cameras, to me "new" means the camera was obtained straight from a dealer, who got it straight from a distributor, who got it straight from the factory, and includes all the banging around inside ships and trucks, and ending up in the hands of a clumsy stockboy. "Mint"? That would be if you traveled to Solms and picked up the camera personally. And then you hand-carried it to my front door and said "Happy Birthday".
So, regarding cameras, to me "new" means the camera was obtained straight from a dealer, who got it straight from a distributor, who got it straight from the factory, and includes all the banging around inside ships and trucks, and ending up in the hands of a clumsy stockboy. "Mint"? That would be if you traveled to Solms and picked up the camera personally. And then you hand-carried it to my front door and said "Happy Birthday".
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I collected coins when I was a kid. In the world of numismatics, the term "mint" meant that the coin had never been circulated. It was basically right off the coin press. A mint coin is far more beautiful than a 'new' coin you might get straight from the bank.
So, regarding cameras, to me "new" means the camera was obtained straight from a dealer, who got it straight from a distributor, who got it straight from the factory, and includes all the banging around inside ships and trucks, and ending up in the hands of a clumsy stockboy. "Mint"? That would be if you traveled to Solms and picked up the camera personally. And then you hand-carried it to my front door and said "Happy Birthday".
Although I have some coins that are "First Strike" that are graded MS-69 it kinda gets like the spoof "This Is Spinal Tap."
"Don't even look at that guitar." LOL.
Cal
rogerzilla
Well-known
"Minty" means "run a mile, I am using this term deliberately because it has no recognised meaning".
I have had some right rubbish on fleaBay this year. Either other buyers are very undiscerning, or they're still scared to leave neg feedback despite the fact that sellers can no longer retaliate.
I have had some right rubbish on fleaBay this year. Either other buyers are very undiscerning, or they're still scared to leave neg feedback despite the fact that sellers can no longer retaliate.
Jack Conrad
Well-known
I always thought "minty" on ebay meant minty fresh as in a nice gob of chewing gum stuck under a desk at school. Lol...j/k