Mirror Kick for 645/6x6 SLRs

[jett]

I'm interested in a 645 or 6x6 SLR system for handheld use.

I'm mostly interested in these series:
-Bronica SQ
-Bronica ETRS
-Mamiya 645
-Pentax 645

They all have their pros/cons (6x6, interchangeable backs, etc.) but my main interest in this camera is to use a wide-angle handheld. I know TLRs and RF's are better for slower shutter speeds but the Mamiya TLR 55/f4.5 is pretty slow and the Fuji rangefinders are a bit limiting so I'd like to focus on SLR's. I'd hope to shoot at 1/60s - 1/30s without much trouble.

So my question is, which series would be the best for slow shutter speeds or handheld work in general? From what I gathered it seems that thus far it seems that the hierarchy goes

Pentax 645>Mamiya 645>Bronica ETRS>Bronica SQ.

1/30th would make me happy, I'm wondering if that is ambitious.

 

[jett]

Another question:

Are the backs generally reliable? Or is film flatness and light leaks a common issue?

 

[filmtwit]

I've had the Bronica and currently have a Mamiya 645.
The Bronica seems to have had more slap then the Mamiya.
The Mamiya has has beena great box, the J-models don't really have interchangle backs and are self contained.
Another nice thing about the Mamiya 645's is that offer some very quick lenses in 120 range. the 85mm f1.9 comes to mind for instance. Furthermore with an adopter you can run this same lens on your canon or Nikon.

 

[Steve M.]

People have described the Bronica as sounding like a gun went off, but it all seems to happen after the shutter has fired, so no loss of sharpness. I had a Hasselblad and it was pretty noisy too, especially w/ a WLF. Putting a prism finder on it made it a lot quieter. The only other SLR medium format camera I've owned was a Kiev. Loud shutter on that too, along w/ a very fragile feeling film advance. If you want quiet in a 6x6, get a high quality folder, or a TLR like a Rolleiflex or maybe an Autocord. Great image quality too.

 

[Argenticien]

Unless I missed it, you didn't say which 6x6 Bronica you're considering. Although you specifically asked about mirror kick, the old focal plane-shuttered Bronicas (S, S2, S2A, EC variants, etc.) are subject to vibration induced by the mirror "kick" and the large shutter curtain's movement (and various other blinds moving about). I do concur with Steve M though: the magnitude of the sound and kick of these old Bronicas is overstated. (I have an S2 and have done hand-held shots at 1/30, maybe 1/15, etc.) The SQ series were leaf-shuttered. I've never owned one of those, but one would think maybe it would have less vibration, since there's the mirror kick, then a curtain opening (I think?) but then separately the leaf shutter actuating.
--Dave

 

[jett]

I was unclear so I revised my original post, but I was interested in the SQ series.

 

[Doug]

If you haven't already, you might find the Pentax 645 reviews at Luminous Landscape interesting. Michael there started off interested in it as a backup to his P67 but got to like it for its own attractions. Later when the NII came out with an added mirror lockup feature, he did a test to see if that helped any, and it turned out in his opinion not to need it, the mechanism was smooth enough as-is. But I don't know how that would compare to the others you mention.

 

[pvdhaar]

I can only comment on the mirror slap on the SQ series. Because of the 6x6 mirror, these are obviously not your ideal stealth cameras. But the shake that the mirror causes is far less than the sound suggests. The mass of the camera dampens the motion, and it doesn't move left/right. There's some upward and backward kick. If I press the camera against my body and push down on the strap, I can get away with 1/30..

Small note on mirror lock-up, if you're considering use on a tripod; the original SQ doesn't have it, while the newer models (sqa/sqam/sqai/sqb) support the feature.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Does it have to be an SLR?
If you want: wide angle; 6x6; no mirror slap; interchangeable magazines; then it sounds like a Hassy Superwide might suit you very well. It seems to work for Lee Friedlander.
Regards,
Brett

 

[shadowfox]

and the Fuji rangefinders are a bit limiting

In what way are Fuji RF 645 limiting?
(not questioning you, just curious)

I find my GA645wi very versatile for general use.

 

[dtcls100]

If you're concerned about mirror slap and vibration, maybe you should consider a MF rangefinder -- Mamiya 6 or 7 come to mind. I have 4 Mamiya 6 bodies. The shutter release is smooth and all you hear is the quietest "snick" when the shutter fires. No vibration that I can feel and the camera can deliver sharp pics handheld to 1/8 sec with the 50mm and 75mm lenses if I lean against a wall, tree or doorway to minimize camera shake. Handheld shots at 1/30 are no problem at all. Mamiya 6 lenses can deliver results as sharp as any MF lenses out there, but they don't focus all that close and their aperture speed is slightly slow at f.4 for the 50mm and f3.5 for the 75mm.

Having used MF slrs before like the Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 series, I would never use one of them after trying the Mamiya 6 RF. MF slrs are big, heavy, noisy and slow to operate in comparison. MF slrs with focal plane shutters also have really slow flash synch speeds, while the Mamiya 6 leaf shutters synch at 1/500 sec which is good for fill flash. If I really need a lens to be longer, wider, focus closer or have a faster aperture, than the Mamiya 6 offers, I just go with 35mm.

 

[it'sawhat?]

I own a pentax 645 and hand hold 85 -90 % of the time mirror slap and shutter vibration are less of a problem than the size and shape of the camera IMHO. 1/30 is possible handheld but remember this is a roughly 5 pound camera that's a 5 by 5 cube. For me personally 1/60 makes me nervous. that being said I admit i love the heck out of mine I enjoy using it very much.