SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Just to vent a little... Although I won't say no to suggestions.
The first film I developed was an Ilford HP4, and it was a success. As a result of the first experience, I mucked up the second (a very cocky Francisco didn't care much about pushing the film in the spiral and wound up with a lacerated emulsion, white spots here and there, and a white thread or streak along the holes of the film). I admit it: I wrecked it. It was FP4 too.
Now, I had two rolls of TMax 400 and decided to develop them simultaneously. First, I loaded them in the spirals with utmost care, and then I had them swim for 8 minutes in D-76 (periodic agitation). Then I stopped the process with Stop bath (agitation for 30 seconds). Afterwards, added fixer... but for how long? Let's do it in 5 minutes (the film strip I dunked in fixer didn't quite change; it was part of the leader), because I've read that 7 minutes is "overfixing". Then, a water rinse of 30 seconds, and hypoclearing agent for 1:20 minutes. Then: 5 minutes and a few seconds in water, then 1 minute in Photo-flo.
Negatives look good during and after wash.
However... when I pulled them out of their spirals after their soak in Photo-flo solution they had some very ugly pinkish streak along some areas, almost at random. In some frames the pink intruded enough to require serious cropping at scanning. I checked the P.net archives: underfixing does that to you.
Darn!! :bang:
How many times did you have problems like these?
Needless to say, I don't think the developer reached the film throughout (one of the rolls, the one on the bottom, seemed less damaged than the one on the top inside the tank), so I won't do two rolls at once again. Then, the first time I developed film I fixed for as long as I developed, and then washed for 25 minutes (didn't have any HCA back then), so I'll repeat this step. Then, even with the HCA, I'll wash for a little over 5 minutes just to be on the safe side.
Thanks for your understanding.
The first film I developed was an Ilford HP4, and it was a success. As a result of the first experience, I mucked up the second (a very cocky Francisco didn't care much about pushing the film in the spiral and wound up with a lacerated emulsion, white spots here and there, and a white thread or streak along the holes of the film). I admit it: I wrecked it. It was FP4 too.
Now, I had two rolls of TMax 400 and decided to develop them simultaneously. First, I loaded them in the spirals with utmost care, and then I had them swim for 8 minutes in D-76 (periodic agitation). Then I stopped the process with Stop bath (agitation for 30 seconds). Afterwards, added fixer... but for how long? Let's do it in 5 minutes (the film strip I dunked in fixer didn't quite change; it was part of the leader), because I've read that 7 minutes is "overfixing". Then, a water rinse of 30 seconds, and hypoclearing agent for 1:20 minutes. Then: 5 minutes and a few seconds in water, then 1 minute in Photo-flo.
Negatives look good during and after wash.
However... when I pulled them out of their spirals after their soak in Photo-flo solution they had some very ugly pinkish streak along some areas, almost at random. In some frames the pink intruded enough to require serious cropping at scanning. I checked the P.net archives: underfixing does that to you.
Darn!! :bang:
How many times did you have problems like these?
Needless to say, I don't think the developer reached the film throughout (one of the rolls, the one on the bottom, seemed less damaged than the one on the top inside the tank), so I won't do two rolls at once again. Then, the first time I developed film I fixed for as long as I developed, and then washed for 25 minutes (didn't have any HCA back then), so I'll repeat this step. Then, even with the HCA, I'll wash for a little over 5 minutes just to be on the safe side.
Thanks for your understanding.
ffttklackdedeng
Registered User
Don't worry, Francisco! Afaik you still can do the remaining fixing! Just mix some new fixer and drop the film into - of course all the washing fun is to be made again, too..
Your fixer was not too old? I'm just wondering, since I usually fix for 3 minutes and never had any problems.
Your fixer was not too old? I'm just wondering, since I usually fix for 3 minutes and never had any problems.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Even after having washed it?
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
The time in fixer depends on what fixer he's using as well.
Now that I've gone to TF-4 I use 4 minutes for most films and 6 minutes for t-grained films. I also remember that with Kodak Professional Fixer (the one WITH the hardener) I had to fix TMAX films longer....around 7 minutes as compared to the 5 I used for everything else.
Before you do ANYTHING, do a test in fixer. Clip the leader and time how long it takes to clear with agitation. Most things say to double that time, but I usually just multiply by 1.5. When you're starting out, do this with every new film you put into the fixer. Also, make sure that you're reading how many rolls can go through your fixer and whether or not it has a limited shelf life.
Now that I've gone to TF-4 I use 4 minutes for most films and 6 minutes for t-grained films. I also remember that with Kodak Professional Fixer (the one WITH the hardener) I had to fix TMAX films longer....around 7 minutes as compared to the 5 I used for everything else.
Before you do ANYTHING, do a test in fixer. Clip the leader and time how long it takes to clear with agitation. Most things say to double that time, but I usually just multiply by 1.5. When you're starting out, do this with every new film you put into the fixer. Also, make sure that you're reading how many rolls can go through your fixer and whether or not it has a limited shelf life.
Michael I.
Well-known
Tmax should be fixed twice the time it clears.I fix for 10 minutes and then check if the pink cleared.if not anoher 5-7 mins.
Sounds like you and the others are on the right track. Be sure to use enough chemical. I always use a little extra in the tank to make sure the entire real and film is immersed.
I also fix for at least as long as I develop, and agitate every minute as I do when developing. And, even though I use the Hypo Wash, I wash my film, 2 min water, 2 min hypo, 10ish min water (or how ever long it take me to clean up and organize myself), you can't do too much washing.
I also fix for at least as long as I develop, and agitate every minute as I do when developing. And, even though I use the Hypo Wash, I wash my film, 2 min water, 2 min hypo, 10ish min water (or how ever long it take me to clean up and organize myself), you can't do too much washing.
Oh, I use Kodak Rapid Fixer.
Max Power
Well-known
Francisco,
Please don't take my question as an insult, but there's something in your post that rings wrong.
Your descriptions of times used seems a bit random. Are you actually following Ilford's or Kodak's timings for the chemistry used? If you are going about this in a random 'guesstimate' fashion I would submit that this could land you in trouble. Again, if I'm off track here and have misinterpreted/misunderstood, please disregard.
That said, it certainly sounds like underfixing to me. This happened to me once, and all I had to do was refix with a new batch of fix and then I rewashed. My understanding is that the T-Grain films are very hard on fixer and deplete it quickly. PhotoEngineer over on APUG could tell you more. Another factor could be your dilution of fixer as well as the age of it. FWIW I use Ilford Rapid Fix at 1+4 and fix between 5-8 minutes depending upon the age of the mix. Even 'old' fix clears the leader in about 2 minutes at this dilution.
Cheers,
Kent
Please don't take my question as an insult, but there's something in your post that rings wrong.
Your descriptions of times used seems a bit random. Are you actually following Ilford's or Kodak's timings for the chemistry used? If you are going about this in a random 'guesstimate' fashion I would submit that this could land you in trouble. Again, if I'm off track here and have misinterpreted/misunderstood, please disregard.
That said, it certainly sounds like underfixing to me. This happened to me once, and all I had to do was refix with a new batch of fix and then I rewashed. My understanding is that the T-Grain films are very hard on fixer and deplete it quickly. PhotoEngineer over on APUG could tell you more. Another factor could be your dilution of fixer as well as the age of it. FWIW I use Ilford Rapid Fix at 1+4 and fix between 5-8 minutes depending upon the age of the mix. Even 'old' fix clears the leader in about 2 minutes at this dilution.
Cheers,
Kent
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Max Power said:
Kent, no offense taken.
The developing times for T-max came in the Kodak box. I used Kodak D-76 and Kodak fixer (I don't believe it's fast; when I purchased my chemicals I had no idea about anything like fast fixer). As for fixing times, I followed the indications in the Ilford publication about developing your film, and also the one I saw in THIS WEBSITE. My big mistake, it seems, is that I didn't ask first and assumed that, as I had read somewhere, a fixing time of 8 minutes is too much.
Recently, Oscar (taffer in this forum) echoed an advice I received in a thread in this forum about determining the fixing time: the film leader test. Hence, whenever I do any film for the first time, not only will I look up the time developing in the factsheet, but also will do a film leader test. BTW, I've used my fixer only three times.
Thanks for your responses! I don't feel too bad now...
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Hmmm...
1) it may or may not be underfixing.
The pink that comes in most films is often from underfixing. This is true. This is from the anti-halation layer, which is stripped out mostly during the fixing stage.
However, t-max films also have sensitizing _dyes_ in them that are...pink. In this case, if you have some pink left, fixing may or may not be the actual solution to the problem. You can fix longer, and the pink will often go away, but that's not because of additional silver removal or actual fixing.
It's because of longer time in a liquid being washed in one way or another.
You can get rid of the dye with a regular fix time of about 4 minutes then a whole lot of vigorous, continuous washing. Now, it's probably wise to fix a bit longer - I started a thread here where I discussed the possibility that, technically, t-grain flims should need _less_ fixing. However, several folks suggested reasons why fixing should be longer even though the films have less silver in them.
2) don't worry about doing 2 rolls at once. worry about enough developer
Don't give up on souping 2 rolls at once. You just didn't put enough liquid in there, that's all. They don't make 2 reel tanks so that you can never develop 2 reels at once...
allan
1) it may or may not be underfixing.
The pink that comes in most films is often from underfixing. This is true. This is from the anti-halation layer, which is stripped out mostly during the fixing stage.
However, t-max films also have sensitizing _dyes_ in them that are...pink. In this case, if you have some pink left, fixing may or may not be the actual solution to the problem. You can fix longer, and the pink will often go away, but that's not because of additional silver removal or actual fixing.
It's because of longer time in a liquid being washed in one way or another.
You can get rid of the dye with a regular fix time of about 4 minutes then a whole lot of vigorous, continuous washing. Now, it's probably wise to fix a bit longer - I started a thread here where I discussed the possibility that, technically, t-grain flims should need _less_ fixing. However, several folks suggested reasons why fixing should be longer even though the films have less silver in them.
2) don't worry about doing 2 rolls at once. worry about enough developer
Don't give up on souping 2 rolls at once. You just didn't put enough liquid in there, that's all. They don't make 2 reel tanks so that you can never develop 2 reels at once...
allan
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Allan, I'll return to doing two rolls... and the next time I'll simply pour more developer than I did last time. Even though the results weren't like my first roll (clean negatives), they weren't that bad either.
BTW, I'm not using Kodak Rapid Fixer, but a kind called Professional Fixer.
And I cleaned my spirals thoroughly in warm, soapy water, and left them to dry for hours on a dish rack. The next time I develop T-max, I'll do everything better,
Or so I hope.
BTW, I'm not using Kodak Rapid Fixer, but a kind called Professional Fixer.
And I cleaned my spirals thoroughly in warm, soapy water, and left them to dry for hours on a dish rack. The next time I develop T-max, I'll do everything better,
Or so I hope.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
For two rolls, both my tanks take 600ml of liquid. When doing one roll I mix up 510mm of developer. When doing two rolls I mix up 765ml of developer. This is using Rodinal 1+50. It seems to allow me the luxury of never having to worry about not having enough developer in the tank plus the added benefit of easy measuring.
Also, as an aside, do not wash TMAX films using the Ilford wash method. Washing enough with those films is vital and you should do a full and proper washing.
Also, as an aside, do not wash TMAX films using the Ilford wash method. Washing enough with those films is vital and you should do a full and proper washing.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
The current paterson tanks use 10 oz of solution per reel. The older style, of which there are many copies, take just about 550ml or 22 oz of solution. I always fill mine all the way up so, depending on which method is easier, mix up 22 oz or 600ml all the time.
The really nice thing about the plastic tanks is, other than the rapid pour/fill rate, you can put 600ml in there, which is about 50ml more than required, and still have lots of room to get good agitation. You don't have that kind of extra room with which to work with SS tanks.
Also, I disagree with Stephanie's suggestion to never use the Ilford wash method with tmax films. At least, I disagree with the reason. It's not that the Ilford wash method is insufficient, it's that you need sufficient washing. This is classic "allan-ese." I start seeing pink coming out of tmax and delta films right after fix. So I see it there and in the permawash (which does help esp. with these films and is a standard part of my process). I will usually see it on the first 2 steps of the Ilford method (fill, pour, fill, 10 inversions, pour) but it's gone by the last two (20 and 30 inversions).
So adequate washing means different things based on your vigorousness, use of permawash, etc. But the Ilford Method does "work."
allan
The really nice thing about the plastic tanks is, other than the rapid pour/fill rate, you can put 600ml in there, which is about 50ml more than required, and still have lots of room to get good agitation. You don't have that kind of extra room with which to work with SS tanks.
Also, I disagree with Stephanie's suggestion to never use the Ilford wash method with tmax films. At least, I disagree with the reason. It's not that the Ilford wash method is insufficient, it's that you need sufficient washing
. This is classic "allan-ese." I start seeing pink coming out of tmax and delta films right after fix. So I see it there and in the permawash (which does help esp. with these films and is a standard part of my process). I will usually see it on the first 2 steps of the Ilford method (fill, pour, fill, 10 inversions, pour) but it's gone by the last two (20 and 30 inversions). So adequate washing means different things based on your vigorousness, use of permawash, etc. But the Ilford Method does "work."
allan
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
What is the "Ilford Wash method"? I though washing film was exactly that, washing it with water. Using HCA helps only to use less water, right?
hth
Well-known
"Ilford Wash method" can be found in their pdfs. It is an idea of replacing water a couple of times that should yield adequate washing. It did not work for me, I got filthy negs. Went back to my 45 minutes wash under running water after ruining a couple of films. Do not be too alarmed, it may work for you. (It works for some at least, but I will not try it again)
/Håkan
(It works for some at least, but I will not try it again)/Håkan
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Wait - washing has nothing to do with whether your negs are "filthy," unless you can _see_ residual hypo or fixer on the negatives. Washing is to get rid of fixer, since any of that left on the negatives will decrease their archival qualities.
The Ilford method, detailed here, has been proven through actually several years to adequately remove fixer from the film.
If you got filthy negatives, you need to look at your water supply.
allan
The Ilford method, detailed here, has been proven through actually several years to adequately remove fixer from the film.
If you got filthy negatives, you need to look at your water supply.
allan