Modern Black and White Aesthetic

Isn't high contrast black and white photography an aesthetic holdover from midcentury photojournalism and street? I assumed that the high contrast of photojournalism wasn't just about high ISO shooting with high shutter speeds but also about optimization for monochromatic benday-dot newspaper printing and as to not be overpowered by the surrounding block text. My theory was that the high contrast look of photojournalism was appropriated by street photographers to give their work the "real life" association. It never crossed my mind that contrasty, gritty B&W is a fad led by young people.

Not especially related, but it reminds me a bit of a story I heard about the NY art critic Clement Greenberg who visited New Zealand in the 70's who noticed that all the paintings he saw were unusually glossy with lacquer. He came to the conclusion that it was because the main way that the local artists saw art was through Artforum magazines, which all had glossy prints, so when they were inspired by/emulating U.S. artists they'd unconsciously copy the print sheen as well as the style.

As far as aesthetic trends from young people go, the main one that pops to mind is Portra overexposed by 2+ stops and tweaked for a pastel look, which personally I can't pull off but can work pretty well.
 
Well, I will build a dark room one day, I have the space - and I believe what you say about REAL prints.

I have an Epson 4990 too. Please check my Flickr and tell me what you think about my latest colour scans. I use Vuescan. I have done a new process with Vuescan and Lightroom to get as close as I can to Frontier (never will) but hey - it's fun. If you're interested I can show you a little trick on how I can that colour response.

I don't have the room, and I now do a hybrid style process: develop negative, scan, process with software. I have used Fromex in Long Beach and MPIX that have a service of digital file printing on real B&W paper and then liquid development for silver gelatin print. They look very good and are way better than Costco printing on Fuji Archive color paper which always has a slight color cast.
 
I have used Fromex in Long Beach and MPIX that have a service of digital file printing on real B&W paper and then liquid development for silver gelatin print.

Ilford in the UK do the same thing.
I`ll go through my scanned negs once in a while and send them a batch to take advantage of a lower price .

I have to admit though that I rarely look at them .
They represent a sort of back up if anything .
 
I guess I am really, really, really lazy. 🙂

I use digital with auto ISO, auto shutter speed and aperture priority.

I shot my E-PL in P, auto ISO, auto shutter speed. No exposure issues at all.
I have to use all manual to get OK exposures from M-E due to crappy metering.
Similar on film. I have no choice but fiddle my M4-2, LTM cameras, but Nikon EM just delivers good exposures in aperture priority.

I'm finding those who are using manual focus lenses on AF bodies with fine working metering to be lazy to learn their equipment capabilities.
 
Well, I will build a dark room one day, I have the space - and I believe what you say about REAL prints.

I have an Epson 4990 too. Please check my Flickr and tell me what you think about my latest colour scans. I use Vuescan. I have done a new process with Vuescan and Lightroom to get as close as I can to Frontier (never will) but hey - it's fun. If you're interested I can show you a little trick on how I can that colour response.

I started to print in 2013 or so. Just to try it. It was good time to practice and good time to get free paper or cheap very old one.
But at some point I had to make a choice. Darkroom or else.
To get decent print it takes a lot of time and effort. It has nothing to do with knowledge or equipment. It just takes too long time.
Now freash darkroom paper is so outrageously expensive, you would have to spend thousands to learn and to be able to print constantly.

Once I'm out of old paper, I have no money, no interest, no practical reason to support it anymore.
I also printed my scans on glossy inkjet paper, bw. Finding it to be not so much different from darkroom prints.

Here is example of inkjet print on glossy paper:


I have family portraits in same area on the walls framed, behind the glass. I can't see any difference between bw darkroom prints and bw inkjet prints.
 
Hi Helen:

This doesn't surprise me based on what I've seen of your work.

Somebody here said photography is a big house with lots of different rooms. I think that's very true.

I think Adams was moved by what he saw and developed techniques to deliver his vision. But I'm tend to be more in the static subjects side of the house anyway.

I do understand when One wants a body of work to look, read the same.., tonal range, depth, shadow detail etc

But I just can’t get into too much formulation for my shooting/ developing ...

Blasphemy for what I am about to say... Let the trolls begin their ascent
Ansel Adams does absolutely Nothing for me
His developing, long range of greys and final product bore me
( though his sense of composition can make me curious)
Some people find his work Extraordinary and that’s ok , it’s a big World with lots of Eye Candy
 
The weird part to me was why shoot at asa 1200? Was it different in the 60s? It's not a normal place to set a meter. ...
I've also read that he would use a dim green light to inspect film while developing - was that common practice? Can someone explain that in detail?

What speed you set EI for is arbitrary and not regulated by what the markings on the meter are. Most meters allow 1/3 step ISO settings, and ISO 1200 is two thirds of a step from ISO 800 to ISO 1600. It doesn't really matter anyway, because if you are not doing photometrically calibrated work, what the "real" sensitivity is comes to more a matter of what looks good to you than any measured standard density of a negative might be. 🙂

Panchromatic film can be inspected in processing without degrading or exposing the developing using a very low wattage greenish light for a few seconds, at most. Orthochromatic film can be inspected in processing with typical red to amber safelights (used in printing) since it is not sensitive at the red end of the spectrum.

Unless you're doing tray development of 35mm film (a very awkward, messy, and mostly silly practice since you can't inspect and change development on one frame specifically...!), in process inspection is something that is done on cut sheet film exposures. It's almost impossible to evaluate a teensy 35mm frame for development in the few seconds that you can look and then resume processing in any real sense, even once you learn what to look for in-process. This is very different from examining a single exposure of 4x5 to 8x10 inch film for a couple of seconds to determine whether you need another half a minute of processing or another two minutes of processing. It's not a process for most of the roll film photography being yakked about in this thread, therefore.

One thing that really does bother me is how the very young people will buy a single roll of film...push it 2 stops...and publish a "review" of it in YouTube and make recommendations or statements of the films quality or "who it's for". Irritates me because at least in my own experience, it took me probably 30 rolls or so of hp5 shot at a few different EI and paired with various developers to even begin getting a handle on it. They do this for lenses and camera bodies as well and I find it misleading. Even so, I suppose it's not as bad as the "why I bought this camera" videos. Lol

LOL! I just put such "reviews" in the category of "Ignorable Silliness" and only read them if I find the particular reviewer entertaining to read. I don't bother getting annoyed or irritated by them.

The camera reviewers are worse. They pick up a camera and lens they know nothing about, do a three hour walkabout snapping with it, and go on to pronounce how awful or wonderful it is with the gravity of a credentialed authority on it. Utter nonsense. No one can know more than initial impressions of a camera and lens, unless the camera is so awfully simple, or just so awful, as to be just garbage that doesn't deserve the label "camera". Yeah, you can tell whether the buttons fit your fingers and whether you can see through the viewfinder in a twenty minute walk, but not much else.

This is why I rarely read reviews of equipment (and film) for anything other than entertainment unless I happen to know the reviewer well and know that they spent quite a bit of time working with the equipment before they wrote their review/impressions. It's why I often write a "first impression" of new equipment I buy so that I can see what I thought about it on acquisition from the perspectives of a month or two later when I've gotten well into my third "thousand exposures" with it.

I don't have the room, and I now do a hybrid style process: develop negative, scan, process with software. I have used Fromex in Long Beach and MPIX that have a service of digital file printing on real B&W paper and then liquid development for silver gelatin print. They look very good and are way better than Costco printing on Fuji Archive color paper which always has a slight color cast.

I haven't had room for an actual darkroom since about 1990, and even then it was a dual purpose room in my apartment otherwise referred to as "the kitchen" when not in use processing film. 🙂

Printing at home basically died for me until the early '00s when the first decent inkjet printers started to appear, but it wasn't until the release of the Epson R2400 and other pigment ink printers of that generation in 2005 that I resumed printing in any volume. Another couple of years and the selection of good papers, and good printer-paper profiles appeared such that by 2008-2009, I found myself capable of making prints again that were now far better than anything *I* ever had patience to produce in a darkroom, and last as long.

I've been doing that hybrid film processing/scanning/image processing/inkjet printing workflow since the middle '90s. It worked much more proficiently once the printers, inks, and papers came up to speed in 2008, and I have since sold many hundreds (possibly thousands, I've never really accounted the numbers completely) of satisfying prints that way ... although the majority went to a digital capture original exposure by 2006-2007.

I still do it with film alongside digital capture, and I'm happy with the results I'm getting. Once I closed the photo business in 2010-2011, I sold far fewer prints but I occasionally still get requests and sell prints from my "Picture Every So Often" posts. No client has yet come back and told me that the quality wasn't up to snuff (even with my repeated requests that they do so), and the prints hanging on the wall of my living room ... made the same way ... for a decade or so, being subjected to the vagaries of normal sunlight and room lighting, etc, still look identical to the reference archive copy of the same print in my boxed archives. That says to me the modern inkjet process is good enough for my purposes. 😀

G
 
It is a legitimate way of working. The main objective is compelling content framed well. If zone focusing is done well, it works. If not, it doesn`t. Like anything else in photography.

Yes, of course. In the particular (and very rarified, though not rare for a street photographer) circumstance we are discussing -- difficult light -- one may also choose to adjust the speed of the shutter. Working with the light instead of trying to overpower it still seems to me like the better solution.
 
It's not about people liking different things to me - it's when you get film reviews from amateur bloggers who don't even know what a characteristic curve is and start talking about how certain films give you "inkier blacks" or "better contrast" - then proceed to show sample photos of stand developed, under exposed/pushed images and attribute that look to film
 
Well, I will build a dark room one day, I have the space - and I believe what you say about REAL prints.

I have an Epson 4990 too. Please check my Flickr and tell me what you think about my latest colour scans. I use Vuescan. I have done a new process with Vuescan and Lightroom to get as close as I can to Frontier (never will) but hey - it's fun. If you're interested I can show you a little trick on how I can that colour response.
Jose, the ones of a posed family in the beach really do get that feeling. I noticed that much of that "Portra look" in the sky, warm cyan whereas real sky is blue. Of course, the character of the film does have to be seen as bad as a scanner may be.
There is a lot of positive results from people using cameras for scanning and Negative lab pro for the inversions. Some of them really impressive. Actually perhaps it's NLP that has been modelled after Frontier, as a flatbed file can be feeded to it.
I do feel that the flatbeds have that slight not so sharp feeling (specially seen on 35mm) and feels as if there's something between the neg and the scan.
EDIT: I've seen your contribution in the camera scan thread, from the family shot in the garden taken on the Rollei. Really stark difference and I'd say the "Fronterized" image is great.

Heard about great inkjet printing and know Cal from these forums who's hip deep into Piezography. However, printers and scanners have that devil thing embedded into them that don't make the process fun as a darkroom is. I did intend to do some camera scanning but I have the same issue, the darkroom is beside the studio and choose it 95% of the time...
Then there's a pile of free paper around so it's quite fun to do workprints.
 
I have a feeling we are talking in different languages.

Let's set the scene. I am walking down fifth ave on a nice sunny day with my M3. I am shooting street photography and I am zone focusing. That means I am judging the distance of the subject I am shooting without critical focusing. In order to do this, one must be very precise in judging distances -- but it becomes easier to get one's subject in focus if the depth of field is broader. This is less of an issue on 5th ave on a sunny day, but let's say I decide to turn down a cross street where it's suddenly quite dark -- let's say f/3.5 at 1/500 and iso 400. Many street photographers will compensate for this sudden change by pushing the entire roll in order to keep their shutter speed high and go to f/8 instead of f/3.5 in the shadowy areas.

I say that's lazy. That is my studied and well reasoned opinion. I do not say it to be incendiary or a "troll" or whatever.

The result is a uniform aesthetic of pushed wide angle film shots that, in my studied and well reasoned opinion, are uniformly ugly and uninteresting.

That's just my opinion.

It takes more skill not to push the film and to become better at judging distances.

*Shrugs* Those who shoot wide open to get a thin depth of field to hide their lack of ability to compose across the frame lack skill and are lazy. Not incendiary or trolling, just my opinion of course.
 
That`s a good point .
There just isn`t enough of it about or enough people making that type of picture for styles like that to become familiar .
.

The aesthetic question is very interesting to me. Aesthetic trends or, as they used to say, "tradition" in art tend to spread, to quote Szarkowski, "less like ideas and more like a cold virus." When one is affected by a particular aesthetic choice or visual arrangement, one doesn't just accept the idea. One is fundamentally changed. We can all, I think, name a handful of photographs or paintings which fundamentally influenced how we think of what we do. For me, there are pictures by Atget, Evans, and Abbott which have imprinted themselves indelibly on my sense of what makes a photograph beautiful.

The homogenization of aesthetic trends seems to happen like the homogenization of dialects of a language. One hundred years ago the USA was a veritable treasury of local dialects. What erased those dialects was the standardization of English as heard through media sources such as the radio and then tv. So too, I think, aesthetic trends are quick to homogenize given the sheer glut of media available to our minds.
 
…. and then there`s peer pressure to produce those prints which have immediate impact .
A lot of photographers today want to get known …. and commercialise their work in some way .
They`re only going to do that if they get ahead of the prevailing trend and produce work with even more impact .

Indeed the some of the young photographers I speak to on the extensive UK club scene are turning away from any kind of prints and submitting their work as a PDI.

Their rationale being why invest in a high resolution camera only to submit that work to a low resolution technology such as an Epson printer .
Printer technology has barely changed where as cameras ….

Cost and the knowledge needed to calibrate also play a significant part in their decision .

That's drifting a bit off piste though .
 


Their rationale being why invest in a high resolution camera only to submit that work to a low resolution technology such as an Epson printer .
Printer technology has barely changed where as cameras ….
.

Yes, if one finds oneself compelled to compete in that rat race, such rationale makes very good sense. The constraints upon and the considerations of the professional photographer are and have always been very different from those of the amateur artist or photographer. Most photographers I know who do so for a living wish they were doing something else.
 
Beautiful BW prints done with love, patience and fortitude are a wonder to behold..Ansel Adams was a Master printer, the tonal scales a very high bar.
Landscapes for folks living in hole in the wall apartments in dense high rises, that are made to feel bigger by excessive rentals, levies and taxes..
Language skills and the same grammar reqd. for coherent statements.
"Like" is not a sentence, paragraph or a comprehensive statement.

Newspaper prints were difficult to make for dot system..
High contrast sooty whitewash were instantly turfed.
One needed a beautiful low contrast print, full of detail.
I printed all my own BW prints mostly 'cause of costs..
Worked thru the night into dawn, the prints delivered
to the presses almost immediately.

I took time to get better, reading Ansel adapting his methods.
The Zone System works!
Pro photography was about testing, exposing, developing and looking!

When I began pro photography a pro, Aubrey Kushner, advised 120 film..
Totally dis-regarded by a jumpy highly ADD idiot!
SLR was the word! The Leica M3 added by accident!
55 years later (M3 2nd one is now 53 )..
But pro work was at end Medium Format. sigh.

I seldom go to Galleries with friends as the shoot around the place,
faster than a vertical shutter at max speed..This is bloody rude!
Even if 25~50 prints are really same as one..

Digital is a boon! Monochrome from color or straight with CCD sensor.
Machine prints giving so much more, if well prepared..
That's my rage. Happy days are here in Lockdown..:angel:
 
I've never looked at an image and said "wow, look at the shadow detail".

I also concur with Helen about Adams boring me to tears.

I remember seeing a big exhibit of his work at MOMA's temporary space in Queens when they were re-doing the mid-town location about 10+ years ago and thinking how much the perfect technical execution really led to a flat emotional response for me.

When I look at the original work of even people I admire like say Henri Cartier Bresson or Gary Winogrand, I'm generally less than impressed by their printing. The images work or they don't but often, especially vintage black and whites are far too low contrast for my eye (in the case of Bresson) or just shoddily printed in the case of Winogrand.

I much prefer seeing a print of Selgado's or Moriyama's or Ralph Gibson. Grain to me is part of black and white photography. This often goes with higher contrast. However high contrast digital black and white, leaves me cold.

Nothing really definitive here to say, except that you have to use the tools to produce the effect you want. All of photography is about selection and editing and directing your viewers eye from when you choose to press the shutter to what you include in the frame to how you choose to print and I don't think there is a intrinsic argument for what or how much dynamic range to include beyond what effect you'd like to produce. For me sometimes reducing the dynamic range is a way of focusing the viewer the same as cropping might be.

But then I stopped shooting black and white awhile ago and am much more intrigued by the possibilities of color these days, an entirely different can of worms.
 
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