noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Okay, so here's the deal: I am going to Mongolia in September. I am taking my Leica M kit, my Hasselblad XPAN kit, My Rollei 35 SE, Sekonic L-508 meter, Metz flash, Gitzo carbon fiber tripod and 100ish rolls of film (Kodak Tri-X 400, Fuji Velvia 50 and Fuji Pro 400 H).
I am taking more film and less camera gear than I have ever taken on any photographic quest or workshop in the past - and all of it is 35mm film based as well as being all rangefinder cameras and lenses.
It all fits in a Pelican 1500 size case or in a 25 liter size PacSafe day pack (except all the film at once and the tripod, of course). I am 100% film based so there will be no DSLRs and I am leaving my Nikon F3hp and lenses at home. I refuse to check cameras and lenses, and airline carry-on luggage limits are prohibitive these days. That limits the amount of gear I can take, which is good; less cameras and lenses, more photos. The days of my misspent youth when I suffered from "National Geographic Syndrome" are definitely over.
My plan is to use the XPAN to make 24x65mm panoramas on Velvia and to load my two M cameras with Tri-X (for street photography in Ulanbataar) and Pro 400 H (for interior low light shooting). The Metz flash is for bounce flash when I will need to handhold rather than use the tripod and the light is too low for ISO 400 film.
I have turned this over and over in my mind for the last two months and this plan seems to make the most sense, all things considered. I will be
photographing landscapes, Buddhist temples and monasteries, doing street photography in Ulanbataar as well as visiting a couple of nomadic Mongolian families who live in gers (yurts) on the Mongolian steppe.
I think I have a sound plan in terms of camera gear and film (I know digital shooters will beg to differ). Any thoughts or input that anyone cares to share regarding my equipment and film selection will be greatly welcomed.
I have just one request: Please don't tell me to join the 21st century and trade off my dumb old Leica film cameras for a pair of Nikon D800s (or the Canon equivalent) - that is just not gonna happen. I love working with film and rangefinder cameras.
Please comment on my plan. Thanks in advance!
I am taking more film and less camera gear than I have ever taken on any photographic quest or workshop in the past - and all of it is 35mm film based as well as being all rangefinder cameras and lenses.
It all fits in a Pelican 1500 size case or in a 25 liter size PacSafe day pack (except all the film at once and the tripod, of course). I am 100% film based so there will be no DSLRs and I am leaving my Nikon F3hp and lenses at home. I refuse to check cameras and lenses, and airline carry-on luggage limits are prohibitive these days. That limits the amount of gear I can take, which is good; less cameras and lenses, more photos. The days of my misspent youth when I suffered from "National Geographic Syndrome" are definitely over.
My plan is to use the XPAN to make 24x65mm panoramas on Velvia and to load my two M cameras with Tri-X (for street photography in Ulanbataar) and Pro 400 H (for interior low light shooting). The Metz flash is for bounce flash when I will need to handhold rather than use the tripod and the light is too low for ISO 400 film.
I have turned this over and over in my mind for the last two months and this plan seems to make the most sense, all things considered. I will be
photographing landscapes, Buddhist temples and monasteries, doing street photography in Ulanbataar as well as visiting a couple of nomadic Mongolian families who live in gers (yurts) on the Mongolian steppe.
I think I have a sound plan in terms of camera gear and film (I know digital shooters will beg to differ). Any thoughts or input that anyone cares to share regarding my equipment and film selection will be greatly welcomed.
I have just one request: Please don't tell me to join the 21st century and trade off my dumb old Leica film cameras for a pair of Nikon D800s (or the Canon equivalent) - that is just not gonna happen. I love working with film and rangefinder cameras.
Please comment on my plan. Thanks in advance!
GaryLH
Veteran
Be prepared for dust/sand storms. I had a co-worker who was out there a long time ago, she was unlucky and during last two days was she said they had sand storms.. Anyway, if u are lucky, never going to see it.
I have been in a sand storm twice both times on business trips, no fun. Even Beijing sees sand storms, got caught once in Beijing.. It's really fine gritty stuff and that get into everything. Had the taste of sandy dirt in my mouth for a bit after I got back to hotel.
Drink only boiled water or bottled.
My only comment is that is a lot of equipment to haul around. If it was me, I would only bring one camera system.. A CL w/ 40f2 or cv 40f1.4 and 21 or 24f2.8. Use the wides full frame or crop to Pano.
In your case may i suggest --> two cameras and only one lens per camera. The xpan w/ the 45 essentially gives u two lenses anyway.
Gary
I have been in a sand storm twice both times on business trips, no fun
. Even Beijing sees sand storms, got caught once in Beijing.. It's really fine gritty stuff and that get into everything. Had the taste of sandy dirt in my mouth for a bit after I got back to hotel. Drink only boiled water or bottled.
My only comment is that is a lot of equipment to haul around. If it was me, I would only bring one camera system.. A CL w/ 40f2 or cv 40f1.4 and 21 or 24f2.8. Use the wides full frame or crop to Pano.
In your case may i suggest --> two cameras and only one lens per camera. The xpan w/ the 45 essentially gives u two lenses anyway.
Gary
redisburning
Well-known
while I appreciate that "a lot" of gear is relative, you're still in Nat.Geo territory for me. not that I don't love that mag.
the XPan shoots regular 35mm frames. why the Leica? why the Leica AND the Rollei? and a tripod, and a flash, and a off camera meter.
IMO buy a second XPan body for the trip and sell it afterward. leave the Leica and Rollei at home. like you said youll have the flash and the tripod. that's one set of lenses you can share across the cameras, and you have pano and regular 35mm.
btw, enjoy your trip and stay safe. Ive heard Mongolia is pretty rough.
the XPan shoots regular 35mm frames. why the Leica? why the Leica AND the Rollei? and a tripod, and a flash, and a off camera meter.
IMO buy a second XPan body for the trip and sell it afterward. leave the Leica and Rollei at home. like you said youll have the flash and the tripod. that's one set of lenses you can share across the cameras, and you have pano and regular 35mm.
btw, enjoy your trip and stay safe. Ive heard Mongolia is pretty rough.
thegman
Veteran
Sounds good to me, I don't think that you have too much gear at all, and really, how much weight and space would leaving the Rollei at home save? I use a Rollei 35, they are utterly tiny and don't weigh much. Sounds like you have a plan to me.
GaryLH
Veteran
Not many lenses to share on the xpan.. 30-45-90. The 45 and 90 are priced ok, but the 30 is expensive in comparison and needs a center filter. I always wished they would have done a 35 non-Pano only lens for it like a 50f1.4 or a 35f2, since the image circle requirements for the Pano coupled w/ the compact size of the lens, these are pretty slow lenses.
Gary
Gary
Mark T
Established
I travelled through Mongolia two years ago. One of my favourite places. You are guaranteed to see some great stuff and to get sick! I was limited in what I could carry as I was travelling by bicycle. However, I took an MP + 28 mm and 50 mm lenses. UB is a spread out kind of city, so the 50mm was good there. A 35 mm might have been a bit too wide as compared with European cities, for example. The 28 mm worked very well in those great open landscapes. A 24mm lens might have been ok instead, but I didn't really miss anything wider. I might have taken a few nice shots with a 90mm but not so many as to justify carrying one. I would reckon you would most likely use the XPan with a wide angle lens, and the Leica with a normal lens and as such I'd be sorely tempted to leave everything else at home. However, live and let live! I casually looked for film in UB, but there was none to be found. Bring everything you intend to use (as you seem to be). I have a preference for black and white as I find the saturated, ultra wide angle landscape done to death, but that's me. Enjoy your trip. It truly is an amazing place!
GaryLH
Veteran
In paragraph 4 he mentions two m bodies. So I count 4 camera bodies plus all the associated lenses for two camera systems, btw..
Anyway, he says he carried more before, so he knows his weight limits.
Gary
thegman
Veteran
Missed that one, maybe that is little much.
loneranger
Well-known
Just take the Rollei , in my opinion. The rest is fluff.
maddoc
... likes film again.
If I am not mistaken, Nate (former member here at RFF) went a couple of times to Mongolia and had some interesting stories to tell afterwards.
XPAN with 30mm (outside in the steppe) and 45mm makes sense to me (and a second XPAN body as backup & for different film). Except for the little Rollei I would leave everything else at home (and bring enough spare batteries for the XPAN !)
Sounds like a fun trip !
XPAN with 30mm (outside in the steppe) and 45mm makes sense to me (and a second XPAN body as backup & for different film). Except for the little Rollei I would leave everything else at home (and bring enough spare batteries for the XPAN !)
Sounds like a fun trip !
bobbyrab
Well-known
For me I'd be more interested in the lenses you're taking, the Xpan is a must giving you the versatility of normal and pan, but the lens speeds limiting so an M with fast lenses to hand makes sense.
I think I'd rather fast film than a flash gun and I'd only take a second M if you want it as backup. So my choice would be Xpan, Leica, fast lenses, some fast film and the tripod if it's lightweight, I don't normally use one but it will extend the Xpans potential, and you are after all lucky enough to be going to Mongolia, so why not. Have a nice trip whatever you take.
I think I'd rather fast film than a flash gun and I'd only take a second M if you want it as backup. So my choice would be Xpan, Leica, fast lenses, some fast film and the tripod if it's lightweight, I don't normally use one but it will extend the Xpans potential, and you are after all lucky enough to be going to Mongolia, so why not. Have a nice trip whatever you take.
daveywaugh
Blah
Sounds awesome. My wife and I had our honeymoon there in 2003. We mountain biked around for about 3 months - just getting lost and being found by the nicest people you could imagine ;-) We took an Nikon FE (with a crap lens unfortunately) and a Ricoh GRv.
skibeerr
Well-known
Hey Noisycheese,
Have you done this kind of trip before?
What is your means of transport, are you in a group or solo and what is the main purpose of this voyage.
I think the amount of gear and your expectations depend on the above.
Have you done this kind of trip before?
What is your means of transport, are you in a group or solo and what is the main purpose of this voyage.
I think the amount of gear and your expectations depend on the above.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
@skibeerr,
This is my first trip of this kind. I will be going with a small group of people - just four of us - so we will have a lot more flexibility and be able to move more quickly and easily than if it were a herd of 20 people.
Our group will operate out of a hotel in Ulanbataar, so travel will be by foot and rental vehicle or public transport in the city. There will be a trip by horseback for three days into the outback of the steppe where we will be staying in a campground that is set up for traveling groups and individuals.
Our tour "guides" for lack of a better term will be two Buddhist monks who have traveled extensively in Mongolia and have many friends, family members and other connections there. The monks are from a Tibetan Buddhist temple in my area that I have photographed for the past year and a half plus as an ongoing documentary project. They are well known to all of us who are going; regarding ethics, intelligence and ability, I have nothing but confidence in these two men as do the others in the group. Other folks from the area who went on a similar tour six years ago have nothing but good things to say about the experience; I am not expecting any issues or disappointments other than the standard fare of unexpected things that can pop up when traveling.
As for taking two M bodies, I can't see going with just one. If there is a malfunction, then I have no back-up. That's not something I am willing to take a chance on, given past experiences. M cameras are as reliable as any camera can be but the bottom line is that even the best made mechanical devices are subject to accidents, unexpected breakage and mechanical failure at the most inopportune moments (this happened once with my MP body of all things, which was a total surprise).
I have worked on my documentary project of the monks and the Buddhist temple for over a year and a half now, shooting with my Leica kit and Tri-X film so I want to continue with the visual fingerprint that this film and set of lenses gives me. that's why I am taking two camera systems.
One of the main strengths of the M kit vs. the XPAN is lens speed. The XPAN lenses are f/4 and f/5.6; I have found that in the dim ambient light of a Buddhist temple, even ISO 400 film and lenses with maximum apertures of f/2 and f/1.4 require using a tripod and cable release 90% of the time. I do not use flash when photographing services in the temple as it would be obnoxious and would disrupt the peaceful atmosphere, ruining the experience for those in attendance. This makes fast lenses, ISO 400 film and a tripod mandatory. I would not expect any better lighting conditions in the temples and monasteries in Mongolia than what I have encountered here at home, so the fast lenses of the M kit are a must have.
Besides all the above, this is the kind of thing that Leica gear is made for. I have longed to do this exact kind of tour for years now; if I don't take the Leica kit and use it, what's the point of owning it to begin with?
The same applies to the XPAN, although I have only one camera body. If it were to choke, my panoramic photography would be over and I would concentrate on shooting with the M kit.
While I don't want to feel like I have an anvil in my camera pack, at the same time I don't want get there and be kicking myself, thinking "Dammit, WHY didn't you bring the XPAN (or the M cameras)?? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!"
I can see paring down the kit a bit, but there's really not alot that I feel could stay at home. Perhaps the flash and the 90/4 for the XPAN, as I use that lens the least of all my XPAN lenses.
That is my thinking at present, but it is subject to revision. Thanks to everyone for offering your thoughts and views - please continue to offer your insights on my upcoming odyssey.
P.S.
Great images, daveywaugh - very nice!
This is my first trip of this kind. I will be going with a small group of people - just four of us - so we will have a lot more flexibility and be able to move more quickly and easily than if it were a herd of 20 people.
Our group will operate out of a hotel in Ulanbataar, so travel will be by foot and rental vehicle or public transport in the city. There will be a trip by horseback for three days into the outback of the steppe where we will be staying in a campground that is set up for traveling groups and individuals.
Our tour "guides" for lack of a better term will be two Buddhist monks who have traveled extensively in Mongolia and have many friends, family members and other connections there. The monks are from a Tibetan Buddhist temple in my area that I have photographed for the past year and a half plus as an ongoing documentary project. They are well known to all of us who are going; regarding ethics, intelligence and ability, I have nothing but confidence in these two men as do the others in the group. Other folks from the area who went on a similar tour six years ago have nothing but good things to say about the experience; I am not expecting any issues or disappointments other than the standard fare of unexpected things that can pop up when traveling.
As for taking two M bodies, I can't see going with just one. If there is a malfunction, then I have no back-up. That's not something I am willing to take a chance on, given past experiences. M cameras are as reliable as any camera can be but the bottom line is that even the best made mechanical devices are subject to accidents, unexpected breakage and mechanical failure at the most inopportune moments (this happened once with my MP body of all things, which was a total surprise).
I have worked on my documentary project of the monks and the Buddhist temple for over a year and a half now, shooting with my Leica kit and Tri-X film so I want to continue with the visual fingerprint that this film and set of lenses gives me. that's why I am taking two camera systems.
One of the main strengths of the M kit vs. the XPAN is lens speed. The XPAN lenses are f/4 and f/5.6; I have found that in the dim ambient light of a Buddhist temple, even ISO 400 film and lenses with maximum apertures of f/2 and f/1.4 require using a tripod and cable release 90% of the time. I do not use flash when photographing services in the temple as it would be obnoxious and would disrupt the peaceful atmosphere, ruining the experience for those in attendance. This makes fast lenses, ISO 400 film and a tripod mandatory. I would not expect any better lighting conditions in the temples and monasteries in Mongolia than what I have encountered here at home, so the fast lenses of the M kit are a must have.
Besides all the above, this is the kind of thing that Leica gear is made for. I have longed to do this exact kind of tour for years now; if I don't take the Leica kit and use it, what's the point of owning it to begin with?
The same applies to the XPAN, although I have only one camera body. If it were to choke, my panoramic photography would be over and I would concentrate on shooting with the M kit.
While I don't want to feel like I have an anvil in my camera pack, at the same time I don't want get there and be kicking myself, thinking "Dammit, WHY didn't you bring the XPAN (or the M cameras)?? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!"
I can see paring down the kit a bit, but there's really not alot that I feel could stay at home. Perhaps the flash and the 90/4 for the XPAN, as I use that lens the least of all my XPAN lenses.
That is my thinking at present, but it is subject to revision. Thanks to everyone for offering your thoughts and views - please continue to offer your insights on my upcoming odyssey.
P.S.
Great images, daveywaugh - very nice!
Tim Gray
Well-known
I've not taken a trip quite like yours, but I used to take week long trips a couple times a year. I ended up settling on two M bodies, three lenses, and a GR1v for hell of it (it's small, autofocus, and has a flash - it's come in handy over the years). Everything but the part of the film would fit in a ThinkTank Retro 5.
I can understand the desire to take the XPan. On the trips that I took my ex-XPan with me, I ended taking only one M. I got some nice XPan shots, but the hassle of two different systems eventually drove me to get rid of the XPan - I just wasn't committed enough to it. Taking the three M lenses in addition to the XPan lens, having to switch lenses more on my M, being more constrained by the M being loaded with the wrong film (instead of just using the other M), etc., all got annoying to me.
The only thing I'd do differently now is to leave the GR1v home and bring my new digital GR and a handful of SD cards instead. I still shoot mostly film, but having a digital alternative for some stuff has been nice.
I can understand the desire to take the XPan. On the trips that I took my ex-XPan with me, I ended taking only one M. I got some nice XPan shots, but the hassle of two different systems eventually drove me to get rid of the XPan - I just wasn't committed enough to it. Taking the three M lenses in addition to the XPan lens, having to switch lenses more on my M, being more constrained by the M being loaded with the wrong film (instead of just using the other M), etc., all got annoying to me.
The only thing I'd do differently now is to leave the GR1v home and bring my new digital GR and a handful of SD cards instead. I still shoot mostly film, but having a digital alternative for some stuff has been nice.
steamer
Well-known
Guess I'd advise taking a bunch of color film. The dramatic contrast of sky, clouds, land and tones don't seem to come out so well in B&W, but that's just my aesthetic take. You can expect the unexpected, it's Mongolia. If **** happens in normal life then it always seems more and weirder **** happens in Mongolia.
raid
Dad Photographer
Enjoy this awesome trip. I would take with me the panorama camera and the Rollei. One camera is for sweeping scenes while the other is for awesome details and simplicity for portraits.
In the end, take with you what makes you feel best.
In the end, take with you what makes you feel best.
steamer
Well-known
Oh yeah I'd seriously advise against taking public transport, buses are good places to get pickpocketed.
domagojs
Established
you've planned a great trip! re your equipment, if you can carry it, then it's perfect. i'd hate to be in the middle of mongolia and think to myself "if only i had... with me". i can imagine little rollie coming handy when you don't feel like carrying a "real" camera...
it sounds like a great trip and i'm sure you'll enjoy it!
it sounds like a great trip and i'm sure you'll enjoy it!
KenR
Well-known
Minimalist
Minimalist
I have become a travel minimalist over the years, cutting down my gear load to one system with a wide and normal lens. I do always take a back-up body having experienced a camera failure while hiking in Rocky Mtn National Park some years ago. I also only take one film with me - generally Tmax400 and let my wife take a digital camera for color. The less I carry, the more I enjoy the trip!
Minimalist
I have become a travel minimalist over the years, cutting down my gear load to one system with a wide and normal lens. I do always take a back-up body having experienced a camera failure while hiking in Rocky Mtn National Park some years ago. I also only take one film with me - generally Tmax400 and let my wife take a digital camera for color. The less I carry, the more I enjoy the trip!