Leica LTM MOOLY-C on IIIf?

[Vince Lupo]

Hello -- Does anyone out there know if a MOOLY-C will fit on a IIIf? I know they will fit on a IIIc, and I just checked the takeup spool shaft on my red dial IIIf, and the end has a crescent shaped cutout for a Leicavit (I suppose), rather than the notches you'd see on a later Leica III or IIIa that would accept the earlier MOOLY. I don't happen to have a IIIc to compare, so I don't know what the end of the takeup spool shaft looks like.

Many thanks!

 

[bob cole]

MOOLY-C on IIIf?

Hello -- Does anyone out there know if a MOOLY-C will fit on a IIIf? I know they will fit on a IIIc, and I just checked the takeup spool shaft on my red dial IIIf, and the end has a crescent shaped cutout for a Leicavit (I suppose), rather than the notches you'd see on a later Leica III or IIIa that would accept the earlier MOOLY. I don't happen to have a IIIc to compare, so I don't know what the end of the takeup spool shaft looks like.

Many thanks!

_______________________________________________________

From what Jim Lager says in his "Leica An Illustrated History," Vol. III, Accessories, the Mooly-C was made for the IIIc-IIId... with deliveries between 1940 and 1949...He says that less than 800 were completed and is "one of the most elusive of all Leica accessories.'' He also says that when mounting the motor, "engagement of motor hook and camera spring is affected by depressing the camera shutter release and failure to exercise care may result in a broken hook''

About 15 years ago, I chased a Mooly in the hands of a former CIA officer for at least a year but he died before I could get it...His family sold it before I could find them...

As for the Leicavit, mine fits on one of my IIIf's -- I believe it's a RD ST one -- but not my other IIIf's...It may not fit by only microscopic amounts so if I played with it, maybe the Leicavit would fit on my other IIIf's...

 

[LeicaTom]

I`ve seen a "wartime" black bodied MOOLY C on a IIIFBD that belonged to a sports photographer for the Nuremberg Soccer team in 1953/54 era

He told me it was specially modified for him at the factory, I think they switched out shafts?

If you have a MOOLY C why don`t you just look for a really nice "Half Race" STEPPER rewind IIIC to add to it? - you can find decent one`s out there still for $350ish

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

Thanks for the replies. Tom, can you tell me what the end of the shaft of the IIIc looks like? Does it have two notches or does it have a curved wedge as on my IIIf?

BTW, I got that I/IIIf conversion body fixed (the broken vulcanite) and it looks great. I'll post photos in the thread when I have a chance.

 

[LeicaTom]

Thanks for the replies. Tom, can you tell me what the end of the shaft of the IIIc looks like? Does it have two notches or does it have a curved wedge as on my IIIf?

BTW, I got that I/IIIf conversion body fixed (the broken vulcanite) and it looks great. I'll post photos in the thread when I have a chance.

Two Notches

I can tell as I look at my 1945 IIIC to IIIFBD "Half Race"
Stepper Rewind camera right now as I write this......

Yes, I just the other day I saw a really kool looking Leica II black to II Sync job, done about 1955/56

I think conversions are neat, most purists and collectors hate them, but they are a whole nother breed of camera I think

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

Here's a few shots of the new acquisition. I also have a IIIc on the way. The motor has plenty of life left in it, though it's got a ding on the corner near the auf/zu key. Ah well, can't expect perfection after 60 years! I also think that one of the tabs on the wind shaft is missing -- can't tell whether it's worn down from use or filed off in an attempt to use it on a IIIf (it doesn't work on it - I tried!). I doesn't appear as though it sheared off. Nice rare piece, and the price?.....well, let's just say I'm quite pleased, despite its few imperfections.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Here are two more....

 

[LeicaTom]

Here's a few shots of the new acquisition. I also have a IIIc on the way. The motor has plenty of life left in it, though it's got a ding on the corner near the auf/zu key. Ah well, can't expect perfection after 60 years! I also think that one of the tabs on the wind shaft is missing -- can't tell whether it's worn down from use or filed off in an attempt to use it on a IIIf (it doesn't work on it - I tried!). I doesn't appear as though it sheared off. Nice rare piece, and the price?.....well, let's just say I'm quite pleased, despite its few imperfections.

I think this is a Export MOOLY C *note Germany* on the front plate

I would pair this up with a really nice "Half Race" Stepper IIIC camera with a wartime Elmar or Summarit 50mm and that`s a kool complete rig

Would look good on my IIIC Stepper to IIIFBD/1.5/50mm Xenon combo
- wanna sell it?

.....just kidding!

I`ve always liked these things, even though they are NOT PRACTICAL to use, they are nice to look at - thanks for sharing

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

Oh I don't think I'll be selling it at the moment -- think I'll enjoy it for a while along with my other two Mooly's (though I've seen the prices of these black ones online, and makes me wonder if I should change my mind!). As far as practicality goes, I like shooting with them, though I'm certainly not using them for spot news or sports (more like fast action cat photos sleeping on the back porch), and the short bodied Mooly's that I have work great. I kinda look at all this as a type of therapy to combat all the digital stuff I work with during the week (the money making stuff). That Haber & Fink turret I have isn't practical either, but that is such a crazy piece how could you not want to use it?! And I won't even talk about my Robot Royal 36 or my working (!) Contax I Model A, and the host of Exakta's currently in the Lupo arsenal, including a nice pre-war jobby.....

I've ordered a IIIc/IIIf black dial with self timer conversion from KEH, or at least that's what they say it is. I hope they're wrong and it actually turns out to be a IIId!

I'm also trying to find either a good red curtain IIIc or a IIIc grey, though I don't know about spending $ 5000.00 on a grey. Think I'd rather pay off my car....

 

[LeicaTom]

Well, there`s STILL IIIC Grey`s out there for less than $3,000 you just have to get lucky

Hahahhhaahha IIId that would be a BIG MISTAKE on their part huh? Most of those IIIC to IIIFBD ST conversions were in the Sharkskin range of serial numbers

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A STEPPER REWIND IIIC TO IIIFBD ST CONVERSION - seems NO ONE ever made one

An AMAZING Red Curtain just sold the other night on evilbay for less than $400 (that was the "One That Got Away")

I think it would be great fun using this old gear, that`s what I love about finding rare stuff that`s not perfect, that`s the great user gear - makes shooting work just a little bit more special

Tom

 

[xayraa33]

Well, there`s STILL IIIC Grey`s out there for less than $3,000 you just have to get lucky

Hahahhhaahha IIId that would be a BIG MISTAKE on their part huh? Most of those IIIC to IIIFBD ST conversions were in the Sharkskin range of serial numbers

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A STEPPER REWIND IIIC TO IIIFBD ST CONVERSION - seems NO ONE ever made one

An AMAZING Red Curtain just sold the other night on evilbay for less than $400 (that was the "One That Got Away")

I think it would be great fun using this old gear, that`s what I love about finding rare stuff that`s not perfect, that`s the great user gear - makes shooting work just a little bit more special

Tom

what about this one Tom?

 

[LeicaTom]

what about this one Tom?

Yeah that`s another that got away....1943 IIIC Grey "normal" pre K shutter camera that had a early 1950`s Factory conversion to IIIFBD - this camera sold on evilbay for like $1,400 about 6 weeks ago.....

I was considering painting the latest IIIC I bought - that Stepper IIIC to IIIFBD conversion to Grey, but I`m having second thoughts, it`s fine the way it is - the dents and nicks sort of add character to the camera

I think I`m going to just let time take it`s course and find a "user" Grey K sometime......there`s got to be some still left over out there.....that camera mentioned above was also a good user, any cameras that were converted were for sure well used and prized cameras by their owners - it was also CHEAPER to convert a Leica in Europe after the war than buying a new one, that`s why we have so many great ORIGINAL IIIC`s and IIIF`s in America now

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

I'll let you know what KEH ends up sending in the mail today. They've made mistakes of this nature before, so we'll see!

Too bad that I/IIIf conversion I have isn't 1/8" longer....

 

[Vince Lupo]

Got the body today from KEH and sorry, not a IIId. But, it's a really clean IIIc/IIIf black dial self timer conversion with sharkskin. As well, it has that crescent shaped wedge on the end of the shaft. it's now clear (at least to me) that this motor was made for strictly the wartime (as in under 400,000) IIIc's and IIId's. I'll keep this body because it's so nice, and in the meanwhile I've found a more appropriate body for this motor, and it's a IIIc with the FL # which has been authenticated by Jim Lager, and it'll be here later in the week. I'll post photos of both bodies soon....

 

[Vince Lupo]

Here's a few shots of the just arrived IIIc Luftwaffe. And guess what? The Mooly works! According to Jim Lager, this body was part of shipment number 25805, and shipped to Berllin on July 26, 1941. Codeword assigned was LOOZS, which means body only. So it's a real Luftwaffe, and there's already a roll of film in it ready to go.

Tom, just check out that step!!!!

 

[LeicaTom]

Here's a few shots of the just arrived IIIc Luftwaffe. And guess what? The Mooly works! According to Jim Lager, this body was part of shipment number 25805, and shipped to Berllin on July 26, 1941. Codeword assigned was LOOZS, which means body only. So it's a real Luftwaffe, and there's already a roll of film in it ready to go.

Tom, just check out that step!!!!

Hell Yeah!!!!!!

Hahahahhahaa that`s what I`m talking about, there`s a whole new generation of VINTAGE RARE GEAR that`s going to be USED out there

That was/is THE REAL DEAL a "RED CURTAIN" body (the serial numbers fall into the production range)
(but Vince are`nt you worried the boogyman`s gonna get your serial numbers? I always erase the last 3 digits of my camera serial numbers when the photos are POSTED ONLINE - it stops fakers and also anyone who would be a smartass and try to claim ownership - stupider things have happened with Leica`s so watch out!)

I`ll be adding a newly acquired camera in at the "Kugellager" thread - so stay tuned for it in about two weeks

Vince have fun with that Luftwaffen IIIC/MOOLY - now all you need is a 1939 Xenon or a "wartime" Elmar 35 on that and it`s ready to go! *I WANT TO HEAR A RECORDING OF THE NOISE IT MAKES*

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

No I don't really worry about the serial number stuff (maybe I'm just too naive or something) too much. No police have come knocking on the door yet, and I'm sure there are plenty of other ways a faker can get serial numbers to make whatever they want. However, I do appreciate the advice and perhaps in future I'll refrain from posting entire numbers.

I already have a sweet two ring Xenon (more like mid '30s) with the folding hood, and there's a Summitar on the way, so we'll see what kind of pictures I end up making (more cat photos, perhaps???).

BTW, I have a line on another possible Luftwaffe camera, however the serial number seems early. It's number 362936, which puts it in the first batch of IIIc's from 1940, and it has the FL# and red curtain. Any idea if this number falls in the proper range?

 

[LeicaTom]

I already have a sweet two ring Xenon (more like mid '30s) with the folding hood, and there's a Summitar on the way, so we'll see what kind of pictures I end up making (more cat photos, perhaps???).

BTW, I have a line on another possible Luftwaffe camera, however the serial number seems early. It's number 362936, which puts it in the first batch of IIIc's from 1940, and it has the FL# and red curtain. Any idea if this number falls in the proper range?

Sounds like one of the FIRST batches of Red Curtains? (late 1940) - I would ask Jim Lager to be sure 100%

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

Tom, I have one of those ER cases for a camera with a MOOLY, but am not sure whether it's for a short or diecast body. If it's for the short body, I find it rather odd that the transmission arm would be just squeezed in there between the leather case and the body. But, when I try to put this black MOOLY setup in, the screw on the bottom doesn't line up with the tripod mounting hole on the bottom, so maybe it's for a short body.

I took the beast out for a test ride today and it performed flawlessly. Had a post war 50 f/3.5 Elmar with a VALOO hood, as well as my sweet Mountain Elmar. What a combo! (Of course, the whole thing was lost on my wife, as she foolishly didn't realize the historical importance of the occasion as she walked beside me. For some other strange reason, she didn't seem to care.....but that's beside the point)

As far as the Mooly sound goes, this is the closest I can offer you: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6599967

I did it on NPR as part of a weeklong series on 'gadgets'. Hope I don't sound too much like a doofus.

Enjoy!

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom, I have one of those ER cases for a camera with a MOOLY, but am not sure whether it's for a short or diecast body. If it's for the short body, I find it rather odd that the transmission arm would be just squeezed in there between the leather case and the body. But, when I try to put this black MOOLY setup in, the screw on the bottom doesn't line up with the tripod mounting hole on the bottom, so maybe it's for a short body.

I took the beast out for a test ride today and it performed flawlessly. Had a post war 50 f/3.5 Elmar with a VALOO hood, as well as my sweet Mountain Elmar. What a combo! (Of course, the whole thing was lost on my wife, as she foolishly didn't realize the historical importance of the occasion as she walked beside me. For some other strange reason, she didn't seem to care.....but that's beside the point)

As far as the Mooly sound goes, this is the closest I can offer you: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6599967

I did it on NPR as part of a weeklong series on 'gadgets'. Hope I don't sound too much like a doofus.

Enjoy!

Very Kool I just listened Vince - hahahahahha now I want a MOOLY C .....
well no JUST KIDDING!!!!!

If I can hang my IIIC K on one someday - just to shoot a roll or two that would be enough

Tom