irees
Member
Reading some comments here about film-rewind, LCD, etc., I'm starting to wonder.
Do you want a camera that appeals most to gear-fondling purists and collectors, or one that is an ideal photographic tool. The answer is pretty clear to me. I'll let you guess which route I think Leica has taken.
Do you want a camera that appeals most to gear-fondling purists and collectors, or one that is an ideal photographic tool. The answer is pretty clear to me. I'll let you guess which route I think Leica has taken.
newyorkone
Established
Agreed
Agreed
The comments about looks, rewind button, etc. are ridiculous. Thank goodness these guys aren't designing the M8.
If they were to design the M8, Leica would surely go out of business.
From what I've seen the M8 is very compelling and I think it will help Leica make a strong comeback and keep it relevant, while at the same time, help it stay in existence, which is a good thing for the film users as well. It's not like Leica is going to stop making their film bodies or the lenses will suddenly stop working for film. The digital M8 is an alternative, or an added tool depending on your needs. It sounds to me like the naysayers are just a bunch of selfish brats that still believe the world revolves around them.
Personally I'm tired of buying mediocre Asian knockoffs of real German engineering. They're "not bad" but there's always something lacking, missing or compromised. My 4 month old 5D takes nice pictures but I now need to send it in because of a bad LCD. Nothing renders like my M6 and M lenses and that's why I'm in line for an M8 and I look forward to its release.
Agreed
The comments about looks, rewind button, etc. are ridiculous. Thank goodness these guys aren't designing the M8.
If they were to design the M8, Leica would surely go out of business.
From what I've seen the M8 is very compelling and I think it will help Leica make a strong comeback and keep it relevant, while at the same time, help it stay in existence, which is a good thing for the film users as well. It's not like Leica is going to stop making their film bodies or the lenses will suddenly stop working for film. The digital M8 is an alternative, or an added tool depending on your needs. It sounds to me like the naysayers are just a bunch of selfish brats that still believe the world revolves around them.
Personally I'm tired of buying mediocre Asian knockoffs of real German engineering. They're "not bad" but there's always something lacking, missing or compromised. My 4 month old 5D takes nice pictures but I now need to send it in because of a bad LCD. Nothing renders like my M6 and M lenses and that's why I'm in line for an M8 and I look forward to its release.
ghost
Well-known
deutschland, deutschland über alles!
rvaubel
Well-known
irees said:
Actually they may be one in the same. The M8 looks like it will be a simple, intuitive photographic instrument. If Leica can deliver, both camps will be happy.
Rex
DerrickC
Member
wonder what that little door is on the left hand side. the bump might be a little irritating when holding the camera, but will have to wait and see.
pessoa00
Member
up until now it seems this strip tease is unveiling exactly the camera in the pics Jorge showed everybody a few days ago (if you dismiss the lack of the inscription "leica camera made in germany"). Kudos for him!
I still wonder though how you are supposed to set some functions...
I still wonder though how you are supposed to set some functions...
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Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
DerrickC said:wonder what that little door is on the left hand side. the bump might be a little irritating when holding the camera, but will have to wait and see.
USB/Firewire port?
Leicaiste
Member
It is USB port.
humanized_form
Established
??
??
Leicaiste.. have you seen the camera? is there something on top of the protruding part of the door? or is it simply usb port? i'm just wondering why it would be designed that way instead of simply being a smooth spring loaded door that didn't interfere with the design.... hmmm.
though the bump out does seem placed about where my finger falls (when not focussing) as i look through the viewfinder.
kevin
??
Leicaiste.. have you seen the camera? is there something on top of the protruding part of the door? or is it simply usb port? i'm just wondering why it would be designed that way instead of simply being a smooth spring loaded door that didn't interfere with the design.... hmmm.
though the bump out does seem placed about where my finger falls (when not focussing) as i look through the viewfinder.
kevin
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ghost
Well-known
that's what i was thinking: why isn't it flush against the body?
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I suspect it's a rubber door as is common with DSLRs - the nubbin is for your fingernail to grab when opening.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Ken Ford said:
Sounds plausible, but I hope not. I hate those little rubber doors -- after a few openings and closings they get stretched, and then it's really hard to get them to fit right.
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Thats why I use a card reader all of the time.
irees
Member
I've used both Japanese and German scientific equipment. I wouldn't be so quick to make any assumptions about the engineering quality of either country.
jonasv
has no mustache
irees said:
Obviously. While the fondlers have to wait for Photokina, the photogs were allowed to play with the M8's at Visa pour l'Image a few days ago... The first user comments are out there.
pessoa00
Member
New pic (8) unveil today. Its funny, shouldn't the magnification # be printed on the viewfinder? I guess we'll have to wait until Friday to learn further specs 
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
pessoa00 said:
Not if they only offer one magnification, I guess...
petermcwerner
Member
Here the first (?) full image of the back
Ted Witcher
Established
Now that Leica has got this out of the way, and, preliminarily, it looks like it delivers everything one might expect... well, what next?
I propose that Leica continue to refine this version of a digital rangefinder, though I suspect there might not be much left to do. More pixels, some operational improvements, better noise performance (could always use improving), etc. But the crop factor will always be here. So this will be the digital M for guys that have substantial investments in glass and don't want to budge.
But for guys that are willing to budge... a digital M should be created that is full-frame. And thus a new series of lenses would have to be created as well. Start small: just a 28, a 35, a 50, a 75. I don't think one would necessarily cannibalize sales from the other, do you? Hypothetical: if the new series of lenses were comparable in quality to the existing M ASPHs, how many of you guys would be interested in such a system?
I propose that Leica continue to refine this version of a digital rangefinder, though I suspect there might not be much left to do. More pixels, some operational improvements, better noise performance (could always use improving), etc. But the crop factor will always be here. So this will be the digital M for guys that have substantial investments in glass and don't want to budge.
But for guys that are willing to budge... a digital M should be created that is full-frame. And thus a new series of lenses would have to be created as well. Start small: just a 28, a 35, a 50, a 75. I don't think one would necessarily cannibalize sales from the other, do you? Hypothetical: if the new series of lenses were comparable in quality to the existing M ASPHs, how many of you guys would be interested in such a system?
AndyPiper
Established
Actually, Ted, likely only the wideangles would need revision to be more friendly to a full-frame sensor. Anything from 50mm up is already fairly "telecentric" in design -i.e. the light rays are fairly vertical to the sensor surface and generally avoid vignetting of the digital sort even with a full-frame chip.
Since we don't have ALL the M8 details yet - Leica may need to look at creating at least one prime superwide (15-18mm) that is f/2.8, if they don't have one up their sleeve already.
THEN they need to look at R/DMR sales (and also the new income flow from the M8) and make some tough decisions about whether to go for an R10 dedicated digital body more compact than the DMR kit, or whether the R line has run its course (I'm not saying it has - but I don't have Leica's inside knowledge on its profitablility now and projected).
At some point Leica has to start returning SOME profit to ACM and Hermes.
There is not a lot of point to incremental fiddling with the pixel count - if you're going to pay Kodak (or someone) for the development costs of a new sensor - better to spend that money on a big jump in pixels (at least 1.8x increase) rather than 12 next year and 14 2 years later and so on.
And cramming 18 Mpixels into a cropped M8 image area is gonna wreck all that nice high ISO performance it looks like the M8 will have. So it will also mean making the transition to full-frame, just to keep the pixels big and juicy and sensitive.
At which point Leica will have ANOTHER tough call - is the technology (either in lens design or sensors) ready yet for full-frame rangefinders? And if not - is it possible to project when it will be?
So it will be a step-by-step process - deciding what needs fixing first, and what is (or may be) unfixable, and carefully applying what should be rather nice income in just the right places to avoid waste while coming up with new products to maintain that income.
Since we don't have ALL the M8 details yet - Leica may need to look at creating at least one prime superwide (15-18mm) that is f/2.8, if they don't have one up their sleeve already.
THEN they need to look at R/DMR sales (and also the new income flow from the M8) and make some tough decisions about whether to go for an R10 dedicated digital body more compact than the DMR kit, or whether the R line has run its course (I'm not saying it has - but I don't have Leica's inside knowledge on its profitablility now and projected).
At some point Leica has to start returning SOME profit to ACM and Hermes.
There is not a lot of point to incremental fiddling with the pixel count - if you're going to pay Kodak (or someone) for the development costs of a new sensor - better to spend that money on a big jump in pixels (at least 1.8x increase) rather than 12 next year and 14 2 years later and so on.
And cramming 18 Mpixels into a cropped M8 image area is gonna wreck all that nice high ISO performance it looks like the M8 will have. So it will also mean making the transition to full-frame, just to keep the pixels big and juicy and sensitive.
At which point Leica will have ANOTHER tough call - is the technology (either in lens design or sensors) ready yet for full-frame rangefinders? And if not - is it possible to project when it will be?
So it will be a step-by-step process - deciding what needs fixing first, and what is (or may be) unfixable, and carefully applying what should be rather nice income in just the right places to avoid waste while coming up with new products to maintain that income.