Moskva 4 light leak - what is going on?

[Muggins]

OK, I'm confused. Easily done, I know, but...

I've just got three rolls of film back from the lab, and each one has an intermittent light leak on it. I can't find a rhyme or reason to it - the biggest leak is on a pic taken on a bright sunny day, but the next biggest are from ones taken on an overcast day. That's confusing.

What has got me really confused, though, is that the leak on the negs lines up with a piece of felt behind the pressure plate around the 6x9 window on the film door. It's even got furry edges that really look like the edge of the felt. But it's white - so it's light coming from in front of the film! I've attached a scan and a close-up for your delectation.

I can understand that I might have a leak from the window, but I'm thoroughly bemused that it's coming from the front of the film, not the back. I can't see anything that it might reflect off. Incidentally, it's Fuji Reala 100, and is a nice orange-brown.

I've gone round my bellows with a torch, and again with a flashgun, and can't see anything so I don't think it's those, and it's certainly not from a loosely rolled film as the leaks are horizontal rather than vertical. Has anyone any bright ideas? I'm very fond of this camera, and seem to take better photos with it - probably because it slows me right down, and I only have eight on a roll!

Thanks,

Adrian#

 

[Muggins]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the thoughts - I want to beat this, as the Moskva is my holiday hillwalking camera!

No, it's not the first roll - I've put at least two or three through a year, and I've not seen that hair before (unless you mean to the left of the frame - that's a boat's mast).

The leak doesn't go past the edge of the exposed area on the side, and the numbers are fine. On the film with the pics shown, the worst one, the leak actually stops just before the edge at the side, and extends slightly over the top edge of the frame. I've attached a scan, but I doubt if it will tell you much as I don't have a tranny scanner or a lightbox handy. The mother-out-law does, so I should be able to get a better scan done, and the digi battery fell over as I took the pic of the back of the camera... So I'm waiting for the battery to charge!

If you look closely at the light area to the lower left hand edge, and the left-hand bottom edge you'll see what I mean. On the other two films, it goes right to the edge.

So the light is probably coming from in front of the film gate , I wonder if the stop before the edge and the slight overlap means that it's happening when I wind on, when the film is a little more flexed? The only place I can see where it MIGHT reflect, IF the light is coming from the back, is off the roller or off the spring to hold the paper tight on the roll, both of which are silver.

Anyway, we've not got all the bits of the jigsaw yet, and I haven't been hit with the blindingly obvious stick, so I'll add more when I get the decent scan and the battery charged.

Adrian

 

[Muggins]

I bet you have - I completely fail to understand how we are always the best, how we are always going to win*, and then do things like that. There seems to be something in the English psyche about ignoring reality. Even I've derived sardonic amusement from it! Being English and liking cricket is a particular form of purgatory - maybe it's the Pope's revenge for Henry VIII?

*Even when all the evidence points in exactly the opposite direction

OK, Cameras. Given the complexity of the light path, I fear you are right about the bellows. Will have to do some thinking and try to get in there somehow. Here's that pic of the back anyway - should be hitting the M-o-L's tomorrow. Incidentally, no your eyes do not deceive you! Yes, I thought that was the hair you meant - haven't seen it before.

Adrian

 

[Muggins]

Here's the scan of the neg - plus a bit from the next neg, so that you can see it's intermittent.

Still thinking about this one. No sign of a hole yet, might see if I can find a dentist's mirror.

Adrian

PS Hurrah for the West Indies! But at 62-2 England could still stuff it up. In fact, if there's the potential for an embarrassing upset, England can almost be relied upon to be embarrassed...

 

[Muggins]

Chippy,

Thinking about it, I reckon that in both cases where the leak is worst I had it open for a little while while I worked out my picture. Usually I compose with only the viewfinder open, so a small hole behind the front door would be masked. If I wound on with the bellows extended, that would at least partly explain why the leak doesn't quite match the film gate.

Bother - now I have to work out how I'm going to find and fix it...

Adrian

 

[FallisPhoto]

I've just got three rolls of film back from the lab, and each one has an intermittent light leak on it. I can't find a rhyme or reason to it - the biggest leak is on a pic taken on a bright sunny day, but the next biggest are from ones taken on an overcast day. That's confusing.

Have you noticed that the light leak is a different shape in each of the two photos? This is probably a lab accident.

 

[Muggins]

Have you noticed that the light leak is a different shape in each of the two photos? This is probably a lab accident.

It's a clip from the same photo, and I forgot to rotate it...

It's in the same place on every affected shot, and a similar shape, so much as I'd love to think it's the lab I think it's the bellows. Drat!

Adrian

 

[Mael]

First, you must use a flash with the bellows extended to see if it is absolutely light tight. Same thing by flashing the door seeing the red windows from the inside, to see if light does not come by this way. Then, you can install a piece of camera foam on the left side, next to the door pivot, on the camera body. Than try again another film.

 

[FallisPhoto]

All you guys need to get one of these:

They're great for checking bellows.

 

[Muggins]

Where and how much? Please don't say "M***o T***s", as they double the price for Europe, then add extortionate shipping!

Adrian

 

[FallisPhoto]

Where and how much? Please don't say "M***o T***s", as they double the price for Europe, then add extortionate shipping!

Adrian

Amazon. I have no idea what they sell for in Europe, but here, it's under $5.

 

[Muggins]

What do they call it? Something like a fibre-optic light? I've got a £5 Amazon voucher, so that could be the very thing...

By the way, I'm off for the weekend, so I'm not being rude if I don't reply to any messages, I won't have been able to read them.

Adrian

 

[FallisPhoto]

What do they call it? Something like a fibre-optic light? I've got a £5 Amazon voucher, so that could be the very thing...

By the way, I'm off for the weekend, so I'm not being rude if I don't reply to any messages, I won't have been able to read them.

Adrian

Look what happens when you mention something that works well and is inexpensive in a forum: http://www.amazon.com/Flexilite-360-Laser-Pointer-Flashlight/dp/B000I9QMV4 They sold out. Looks like they are planning to sell them for $14 when they get more too. Amazon is advertizing that on a few shopping websites. Let's see if I can find it somewhere else.

Yep: http://www.2shopper.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NVT014668L I also did a search for "laser flexible light" on ebay and found a lot of them, ranging from $1.75 to $48. Most of them were between $4 and $6 though.

 

[Muggins]

Ooops! Luckily, only one other person in the UK seems to read RFF (there were four for sale last night, three this morning, and I've just bought one of those). It took a bit of creative work as, helpfully, they don't sell under the same brand name on this side of the pond. However I got there - thanks for the suggestion Fallis, it's very much appreciated.

By the way, if you fancy a laugh try ordering from the second link and set UK as the delivery address. Type in a county and postcode - try Gwynedd and LL57 2UW (I don't live there, just happen to remember it, and see what you get... For that money I'd expect someone to personally row across the Atlantic with it and hand-deliver. They have to be joking!

Adrian

 

[Windscale]

You don't really need one of these. Any small powerful, say 3 Watt, LED torch (flashlight in the USA) will do. Of course, you will also need a room that is very dark!

 

[Muggins]

Possibkly not, Windscale, but as my leak looks as though it's behind the folding front anything that helps me get to it is a plus. Besides, I had no idea what to do with the Amazon voucher.

Working on the dark room - at the moment, it's head under the duvet time!

Adrian

 

[Windscale]

Possibkly not, Windscale, but as my leak looks as though it's behind the folding front anything that helps me get to it is a plus. Besides, I had no idea what to do with the Amazon voucher.

Working on the dark room - at the moment, it's head under the duvet time!

Adrian

Just open the back of the folder and shine the torch into it, keep moving the torch gently, then look for any light leak from outside the bellows from the front and sides. In a dark room it is easy to spot light leaks. You will also need to shine the torch from outside te bellows and look inside the bellows from all angles for light leaks.

You can, of course, do the whole exercise under your duvet!

I don't think that little bender is powerful enough. You need at least a 1 Watt LED torch. Better still, a 3 Watter.

 

[Windscale]

If you think the leak comes from behind the folding front, then you can open the folder, tape some black matt paper to cover the bottom of the bellows (from the outside) and take a few shots. If no light leak then, BINGO. I took a look at your pictures and negative again, I think it is possible that the leak came from the door. Try line as much as possible the inside of the camera, especially the two side compartments and the back, with velvet paper and try again.

Catching light leaks must be the joy of using folders. I got sick of doing this many years ago and that's why I started thinking of modifying cameras. I can remember a Bessa II I had that took me days to find the leak in the rear red window. Good luck. Sooner or later you will find it.

 

[Muggins]

Cheers, I certainly hope I find it (and that it's not the bellows!). For some reason - whether it's that I tend to save it for the best subjects, or whether it slows me right done and forces me to really think (instead of thinking I'm thinking, for want of a better analogy), I don't know, but I do seem to take better pics with it than with many other cameras.

Adrian

 

[Muggins]

I know I'm dragging this thread up from the dead a bit...

But I accidentally discovered this on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sikario/476672247/sizes/o/

I get the impression from one of the replies that it is caused by light reflecting past the pressure plate from the red window, and the leak is startlingly like mine to look at.

Any thoughts?

Incidentally, I've mentioned elsewhere that I've found a pinhole in the bellows, but it's not in a place that makes sense for my leak - has this guy a point?

Cheers,

Adrian