Moskva 5 Moment-23C shutter = Compur?

murrayatuptown

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Hello:

Somewhere I got the idea that the FSU Moment-24C shutter is a Compur clone.

Does anyone know if the Industar/Moment lens cell/shutter threads on a Moskva 5 (110 mm f/3.5) are the same as any Compur shutter (#1?)

Thanks

Murray
 
I had read (somewhere that I can't find) that the shutters on the Moskva were designed by the engineers along with other "improvements". These shutters have been described as bullet proof, and looking at how strong the spring is on my Moment 24, I can understand where that idea came from. The spring tension on 1/250th is worthy of a rat trap.

But, I don't know if you could swap optics around....
 
I had read (somewhere that I can't find) that the shutters on the Moskva were designed by the engineers along with other "improvements". These shutters have been described as bullet proof, and looking at how strong the spring is on my Moment 24, I can understand where that idea came from. The spring tension on 1/250th is worthy of a rat trap.

But, I don't know if you could swap optics around....

In Serrano's page on the Iskra (very informative) there are some details on the shutters used in the Moskva models:

So, within a short time, the USSR could make the Moskva-1 6x9(1946-1949)(with parts from the Ikonta 6x9, Zeiss tooling, folding Newton viewfinder and original German Compur shutter at the beginning and a very good Russian copy afterwards) and the Moskva-2(1947-1956) equipped with a coupled rangefinder(featured with a folding Newton viewfinder, parts of the Super-Ikonta 6x9, Zeiss tooling and Compur shutter and much more frequently Moment-1). That´s why the Iskra FXCh-18 shutter, silent as few and born in 1960, was a great achievement and the digest of nearly two decades of endeavours and own designs, evoultioned from top-notch original German concepts, both mechanical and optical, with which before the appearance of the "Iskra", the Russians had already a reputable prestige in the making of superb shutters for medium format cameras(together with the previously cited, we should add the Moment-5D shutter of the Moskva-3(1950-1951), the Moment-23S of the Moskva-4(1956-1958), the 24S of the Moskva-5 1956-1960, the ZT 13 central shutter of the Estafeta-Gomz(1957-1958), the ZT 14 of the Vympel "Ensign"(1958-59), the ZT-5 of the Lubitels 1 and 2, the ZT-11 of the Neva(1956-58), and so forth.
Furthermore, it must be underlined that the FXCh shutter can practically compete on a par with both the Compur Rapid and Synchro Compur featured by the prestigious uncoupled rangefinder folding medium format cameras Agfas Isolettes III(getting ahead of them in terms of shutter triggering smoothness and super low noise on shooting) and it´s far superior in quality and reliability to the Prontor-SVS worn by many celebrated rangefinder folding cameras.


End of quote.


In that article some Soviet photographers are mentioned that used the Iskra. I would like to know what photographs they made but couldn't find anything on the web about them. Is there more knowledge around here ?



Galièna Loukianova, specialist on Russian rural nostalgia and R.Ostrovskaïa




Ernst Dinkla
 
It's said that Russian photographers weren't using Russian cameras, but managed to get Leicas and real Contaxes. They may have you Iskras but it may be the same as for 35mm.
 
It's said that Russian photographers weren't using Russian cameras, but managed to get Leicas and real Contaxes. They may have you Iskras but it may be the same as for 35mm.

Between 1960 and 1970 a lot of Western photographers including photojournalists still relied on MF cameras or even larger, Linhofs in Europa and one of the Graphic types in the US. If a Soviet photographer could lay his hands on a Leica he also had to get the quality film available in Western Europe or the USA. I'm sure that there were several with the right connections that could get that kind of equipment and film but a majority probably not. In that case I think I would also use the Iskra and Orwo or similar film in favor of a Zorki, Fed and 35 mm film from the same source. Mr. Serrano gives the impression to have some knowledge on the subject and it doesn't sound unrealistic to me.

Ernst Dinkla
 
I have taken the shutters apart on both my Super Ikonta and Moskva 5. The Moment 24 has a three bladed shutter whereas the Compur Rapid has 5 blades. The innards are fairly similar otherwise but I couldn't say any were interchangeable.

I can say that the rear element of the lenses are definitely interchangeable ( I just did it ). Whether the front element is interchangeable I'll leave for others to try. Betcha it does though.

These things are really close in so many ways.
 
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