Most reliable/robust M?

[md2008]

Which M do you consider or is considered the most robust and reliable? It will be the only M on the trip (meterless is fine) together with SLRs. As the shutters on the M's are all pretty reliable, I am mostly worried about the RF getting knocked out of alignment in the middle of the trip with nowhere to get it adjusted. I have a couple months in which to consider a new/used M and put it through its paces before the trip.

Thanks.

 

[Benjamin]

From what I understand the RF is most likely to be easily knocked out in the M2 and M3 due to the type of cement they used. I think it's a Canadian balsam or something, I'm sure that I will be promptly corrected.

I believe they changed to something more durable when they started production of the M4.

I'd also imagine that most will tell you that the new MP is the most rugged due to the brass top plate, the tighter tolerances-supposedly (re)introduced in it's production and the fact that it's not a 50 year old camera.

Plus it has a meter, and the rewind knob is the old type. Apparently the angled one introduced on the M4 isn't quite as tough.

I reckon you'd be best of going into the shop and throwing them around for a bit to see which still works.


Benjamin

 

[colker]

where are you going? inside an active volcano?
any Leica, Zeiss Ikon, Besa o Nikon is strong enough to travel everywhere.

 

[peter_n]

I would certainly suggest a newer camera like an M7 (if you shoot slides or need AE) or an MP. I would not recommend taking a new(ish) camera on a trip however.

 

[fbf]

I would say M4P but I have no experience with m5 or mp.

 

[Benjamin]

Colker,

I'm rather afraid that it's not actually that difficult to knock out the RF on a 50 year old camera. Basically for the reasons that I had highlighted above.

The Bessa is good, but it's plastic bodied. The Zeiss is not fully manual, and therefore cannot compete with the intrinsic reliability of the mechanical Leica. I'm not saying that either is shoddy, though they are made for a seperate market.

I'd have no qualms with taking a Nikon anywhere however cliched that may sound. Though the poster mentioned that he/she requires an M mount camera.

I rather believe that the MP is really the only rangefinder of a proffesional grade currently available.

Get one. Send it to me if you don't like it.

Benjamin

 

[like2fiddle]

I've only had experience with a few M bodies, two Leicas and three Bessas. The alignment of the R3M was off out of the box, but with a little email help from the place I bought it, I was able to fix it myself (but this camera turned out to have more major issues, so it was taken back by the store after only a few rolls of film). I've never had my M2 or M6 go out of alignment, and one or the other of those two cameras get tossed around in my work bag daily. I think I read somewhere that it is easier to adjust the alignment of the M2 than that of the M6, but I don't really know.

 

[spiderfrank]

My Bessa R dropped two times on the concrete, with no RF problems, it's not a so crappy camera...

 

[md2008]

😱 Not quite that dangerous. There will be backpacking and some overnight hiking trips however. My main system will be a Nikon F6 with 24mm and 35-70 f/2.8 so I'm not worried about being camera-less on the trip due to failure, but the M will be bouncing around in there as well. The M will be for the streets in the towns and pubs after all the crap is dropped off in the hotel.

where are you going? inside an active volcano?
any Leica, Zeiss Ikon, Besa o Nikon is strong enough to travel everywhere.

 

[venchka]

It must be...

It must be...

...the M5. What other Leica has had the weight of the angry all knowing all seeing Leica purists heaped upon it and it still makes wonderful photos?

They can't kill it! 😎

 

[HuubL]

I'll be leaving for the Philippines this week and supplement the Canon 40D 24-105 + 11-22 with my M4 35 Summaron. The M3, 2, 5 and 6 stay home. The M3 because of the 35mm, the M5 due to its size (sorry Wayne), the M6 because it's too scratchless and the M2 because I like it least 😉

 

[yoyo22]

I'll be leaving for the Philippines this week and supplement the Canon 40D 24-105 + 11-22 with my M4 35 Summaron. The M3, 2, 5 and 6 stay home. The M3 because of the 35mm, the M5 due to its size (sorry Wayne), the M6 because it's too scratchless and the M2 because I like it least 😉

Hey, that's a nice destination. My wife and I will be leaving for a one month vacation in Philippines in 2,5 weeks (counting the days).
I'll be bringing an MP + 28mm and an M6TTL + 50mm.

Watch out for the sun - it's easy to burn a shutter there.

 

[aizan]

the differences in reliability between models is small. my first concern would be to find one in good, working condition.

 

[yoyo22]

From what I understand the RF is most likely to be easily knocked out in the M2 and M3 due to the type of cement they used. I think it's a Canadian balsam or something, I'm sure that I will be promptly corrected.

I believe they changed to something more durable when they started production of the M4.

As far as I remember, the Canadian balsam is just responsible for the so called balsam separation. That kind of failure does not result in a misaligned rangefinder.

For the durability of the different models I would say that an M2 can take just as much beating as the current MP, if not even more. The older models have already proven that they can easily last for half a century, while the current MP is still quite young.

Regarding zinc and brass top plates I would like to quote Tom Abrahamsson from an article on the Leica FAQ (Link):

"The Zinc is not bad; it absorbs and dissipates impact fairly well. If you hit it really hard it can crack, but a brass housing hit with the same force, would have collapsed and crushed the finder assembly and metering circuitry. The biggest risk with using zinc is if you manage to scratch through the coating (chrome/black chrome. nickel and acid copper sealer) into the zinc itself. If you expose the "wound" to very salty air (sea spray, East Coast salted road slush) you can create a galvanic effect and the zinc will turn into a white powder and the plating will lift off. This being said, I have never had that happen to any of my M6's or late M4-P's, and they have not been babied over the years either and I do live less than 150ft/50meters from the Pacific Ocean.

Evidently the M6 TTL will have a brass top-plate again and in spite of the zinc alloy's improved impact features I like that. Somehow having a white/grey surface show up after a couple of 1000 rolls in your camera doesn't look right. Well-worn Leicas show brass on the edges!"

 

[funkaoshi]

The focus is out on my M2, so that's one data point. I'm not particularly rough with my cameras. I am thinking the most reliable would be something new, like the MP or M7.

Honestly, for straight up reliability, I suspect old school SLRs are going to be more reliable. They seem like simpler machines.

 

[ferider]

I find the M6 (or late M4P) the most robust - because of the zinc shell.

On the other hand, RF alignment is an easier DIY job on older Ms, just take a screw driver on the trip. In practice mis-alignment is unlikely to happen.

If you want to make your M more "robust", add a leather case with built-in grip. Makes it quieter, too.

Roland.

 

[historicist]

I've had all sorts of problems with my (admittedly worn out) M4, but nothing that would stop me taking a picture yet, and never any RF problems. If it's not the only camera you will be taking with you, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Al Kaplan]

I bought my "everyday" button rewind M2 from a UPI photorapher that I knew, right after the Republican and Democratic conventions in Miami Beach back in 1972. She'd bought it from another photographer I knew who'd used it for the 1968 Mexico City Olympics. He'd picked it up second (or third?) hand. I had it "upgraded" with M4 type synch sockets. It's had perhaps two CLA's since then and the vulcanite replaced once. It's still working just fine. Built to last!

 

[raid]

A Leica M is a Leica M ... any will do as "best".

 

[Bassism]

I would think that any M body will be able to stand up to much abuse. I haven't had my M2 long enough to know about the reliability of the RF adjustment. However, I have knocked the RF out of alignment on my Minolta. To that end, I would suggest you take any model up until the M5. Until the M5, the RF alignment is an easy DIY repair with a screwdriver. Starting with the M6, an expensive and special tool is required to adjust the RF.

The M2 and M3 do have the possibility of the prism separating (the previously mentioned Canadian balsam issue). This will result in a blacked out finder and is not something you can DIY on the road.

Thus, for absolute reliability, an M4 or 5 might be the best choice. Get a CLA before you go and you're not likely to have any troubles. A newer M is just as susceptible to RF misalignment, but you won't be able to adjust it yourself.