Vincent.G
Well-known
Hi guys
I need help.
How can we physically assess whether the viewfinder of a Leica has been upgraded to the MP viewfinder? Will the interior of the viewfinder look different? If so, can anyone post photos showing a upgraded and non-upgraded viewfinder here please?
I am not sure if this is a noob question or not but I really hope to get some advise here. Thanks in advance.
I need help.
How can we physically assess whether the viewfinder of a Leica has been upgraded to the MP viewfinder? Will the interior of the viewfinder look different? If so, can anyone post photos showing a upgraded and non-upgraded viewfinder here please?
I am not sure if this is a noob question or not but I really hope to get some advise here. Thanks in advance.
ferider
Veteran
Nothing visible from the outside. Try to get it to flare by pointing against a light source.
Roland.
Roland.
maddoc
... likes film again.
It can only be checked by removing the top-plate and knowing the differences in design (aka experienced repair person).
Vincent.G
Well-known
Roland, thanks. So an upgraded VF will not experience any "whiteout" at all if I point it at a light source?
Reason I am asking is because if a seller claims his camera has a MP VF upgrade, I won't know how to to verify his claim other than insisting for paper work of the job done.
Reason I am asking is because if a seller claims his camera has a MP VF upgrade, I won't know how to to verify his claim other than insisting for paper work of the job done.
ferider
Veteran
That's right, Vincent.
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Vincent.G
Well-known
Gabor, thanks for your input. Looks like I have to insist on paper work verification for the job done at the very least to be safe.
Vincent.G
Well-known
Roland, I was not referring to that.
Actually I recently bought another M2 and my brother has been using it so much with my 50 cron DR that he got so excited about film and now he wants to keep it.
Hence I am considering to purchase another M body again. But I am in no hurry. I just hope to find out more about the MP viewfinder upgrade on M6 and M7 bodies before I decide. Knowledge is money. I came across an interesting article while researching on this issue. Here it is for those interested on the issue of RF patch flare.
http://nemeng.com/leica/020b.shtml
I am still patiently searching for that M body.
peter_n
Veteran
As others have posted it requires internal inspection. I was convinced one of my M7 bodies had the upgrade but Leica told me it didn't. Both my MP bodies have a purple reflection from the VF and many people think that's the key. However I think it's more likely an indication of the coating on the VF.
RichardB
Well-known
It really doesn't matter, the camera will still take the same picture.
I had the finders upgraded on both my M7's only because they already were at Solm's for the Optical Reader upgrade. I really haven't noticed any difference since they were returned.
My M6 has not been upgraded and I doubt it ever will.
I would purchase any M without any upgrade to the finder in an instant if I wanted the camera.-Dick
I had the finders upgraded on both my M7's only because they already were at Solm's for the Optical Reader upgrade. I really haven't noticed any difference since they were returned.
My M6 has not been upgraded and I doubt it ever will.
I would purchase any M without any upgrade to the finder in an instant if I wanted the camera.-Dick
Leica All Day
Veteran
I agree with RicharB above....I had sherry repair my M6ttl and I asked her about the benefits about the "upgrade" while she was working on the camera....after a short discussion with her...I decided to go for it.....I haven't noticed any real difference because I forget what the thing looked like before I sent it to her...that said, if I wanted a camera (mp/m7, etc.) that was at a good price, I wouldn't let the finder be a deciding factor....but if someone "claimed" it was upgraded (and the price reflected it), then I would like to see some paper work....
cheers, michael
cheers, michael
dfoo
Well-known
I only really noticed the white out in my M4-p at night if pointed at a bright light source. In that case, you could shield the finder with a finger, adjust your eye slightly, or the camera. In most cases it wasn't a big deal.
peter_n
Veteran
If you've experienced the white-out, you'll want the upgrade because the camera becomes unusable unless or until you change your position. I used my M6TTL for many months before experiencing this issue. Those who've not noticed any problem or difference probably don't shoot against the sun.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
+1
I currently have my M6 at Sherry's for an overhaul and MP VF upgrade. I shoot in low light with a 75 Lux BTW and whiteout is a real problem for me under harsh lighting conditions.
Also IMHO the MP's I handled had very nice extra contrasty VF'ers, but I'm not so sure if this is because of newness and or perfect alignment/setup of the VF'er. If light is not being bounced around in an uncontroled manner that can cause whiteout in a MP finder it kinda makes sense that the rangefinder will exhibit more contrast for faster/easier focus. IMHO the MP finder is a big improvement that should not be discounted.
Cal
Livesteamer
Well-known
The only new Leica body I have ever bought was an M6 .85 about ten years ago. The finder was a big disappointment until about two years ago I had it upgraded by Sherry K. It made a big difference on this model. I have two early M6's I'm not sure I would upgrade. The unimproved finder had lots of flare in the .85 version and required you to have your eye in just the right spot and this may be a clue. The upgraded finder is more tolerant of your eye position and very close to the quality of my M3. Again, my experience has been only with the original M6 .85 of 1999. Joe
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
That's not quite right. It will white out to a lesser degree than a non-upgraded M6 or M7. The only M that does not white out, no matter what, is the M3. All cameras after the M3 have a different optical path that is susceptible to whiteout. So an M2, M4, M4P, and MP can all exhibit some degree of whiteout, but it will not be so bad that you can't focus. Same is true of an MP-upgraded finder.
You don't have to have a bright light in the frame to see whiteout. It can be off to one side, out of the frame, and the whiteout can still happen. It can also happen when shooting toward a diffuse light, like an overcast sky, in front of the camera. A large white wall that is reflecting a strong diffuse light back to the camera will do it, as well. The MP upgrade helps a lot, even though not perfect.
peter_n
Veteran
This is correct, and Leica agrees too. When the M7 I wrote about above in post #8 came back from Leica, this was printed on the service ticket:
"Update viewfinder to MP type. Occasionally, mild flaring remains which cannot be removed."
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
With all due respect with any who have responded to the contrary, this is simply not correct. The condenser 'upgrade' in question will cause the finder to be flair resistant - not flair-free.
The only flair-free finder - ever - is an M3 finder.
aizan
Veteran
the zeiss ikon's rangefinder assembly is more similar to the m3 than the m2 and those following. i haven't heard a single zeiss ikon owner claim that it flares. something worth looking into!
ferider
Veteran
Please read what he asked. Flare and "white-out" are not the same; where white-out completely disables focusing ability, and flare only makes it harder.
There is a big difference between my "upgraded" M6, before and after the upgrade, and when compared to my M4P, for instance. The upgraded M6 feels very similar wrt flare to my M2, and is only a little better than any of my M3s. I've not been in a situation yet where I couldn't focus the M6, which does happen with the M4P.
Note that "Flair", however, the M6 has a lot
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Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
Please read what he asked. Flare and "white-out" are not the same; where white-out completely disables focusing ability, and flare only makes it harder...
Okaayyy... for all intensive purposes we are talking about the same thing, right? - so let's not get into hair-splitting details about defining 'flair' and RF patch 'white-out' (which is the exact reason we care about ‘flair’ at all).
If by 'flair' we are talking about RF patch white-out, then this statement couldn't be more false. The truth is the ZM patch whites out worse than any other unless the user learns to precisely center his or her eye into the eyepiece.