furcafe
Veteran
I had to choose between the Bessa & the Makina & chose to go w/the Makina because I decided I needed f/2.8 more than all the modern advantages of the Bessa, nice as they are.
gilpen123
Gil
matt335
Well-known
I have an MP and a Hasselblad 503cx. I have seen the Bessa III, and they are gorgeous in every way. I still use my MP in preference cause of ease of use, portability, 35 frames (or 38 in Tom's case) as an everyday camera. MF is also another world and used on special occasions. The Bessa does create a whole new ballgame though. Good luck with your decision. Are any purchases done with the head, all mine are heart-driven. But each to their own I say.
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
Exactly my thoughts.
Now I carry an M with a 28mm on it and the GF670 with me everywhere.
You won't regret buying the Bessa III but if you do I'll take it off your hands later
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
If you already see the fixed lens of the Bessa as being a potential hinderance ... the writings on the wall.
Get the MP!
Get the MP!
gilpen123
Gil
Mike as of now I'm still at the edge towards an MP one is due to my investment in a 5000ED scanner and having a lower end V500 for MF where I might not be able to get he best results from a larger negative and IMO the 9000ED is the best choice for MF scanning which is 2k+. 2nd, I do a lot of lowlight shoots after office hours or early morning, the 3.5 opening of the Heliar may be a bit limiting for an ASA400 film unless I push 1-2 stops. As you know getting higher ASA here is quite difficult. 3rd, 1.1 and 1.2 lens openings are not that expensive anymore with VC in the playing field. And lastly as what Keith said, the flexibility of interchangeable lens might get on me later on specially I love doing portraits on a longer lens like 90 in 35 mm equivalent. The Mamiya 7 seems to be a better option but not as portable. Anyway, I'll be in Bangkok then Hongkong 1st week of January '10 and I'll try to handle the Bessa III and get to shoot a roll with it. The VC dealer in Bangkok is a friend and he'll let me try it oustide his store. I'll shoot with a chromogenic film to get the results immediately. If I'm swayed to it then I won't look at any camera shops in Hongkong anymore lest I come home poorer by a couple of $$$ grand with a Bessa III and an MP in my bag and not talking to my wife for a month or so.
gilpen123
Gil
Oh and I forgot the 36 135 vs 10 for 120 (6x7). Then developing and film loading may be an added burden. That's funny I'm swinging myself towards the MP when I'm seeking advise here.......
matt335
Well-known
Both have different worlds. Hard to compare MP Vs Bessa. But, really you need to get your hands wet in chemicals and produce some wet prints to see the real beauty of these negatives produced by these lenses.
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
Well Gil, I've just come back from shooting 10 roll's in the GF670 around the Palenkie (market). The 3.5 lens is a non-issue as you can hand hold this camera easily down to 1/8th and Neopan 400 pushes nicely to 1600 (I get it from Freestyle).
I've been tempted by the Nikon 9000 scanner but decided to stick with the V700 and order the Better Scanning holders.
The large negatives do it for me, 10 shots a roll is also a non issue as I can reload the camera quickly in the street (plenty off practice with my 1950's folders). I think if you use the camera in Bangkok you will come home with it. Its a fantastic camera but quite a different beast from an MP. I find it very refreshing to shoot different formats as each has there pluses (and minuses).
Unfortunately I'm leaving the country again a few day's otherwise you could have tried mine out.
I've been tempted by the Nikon 9000 scanner but decided to stick with the V700 and order the Better Scanning holders.
The large negatives do it for me, 10 shots a roll is also a non issue as I can reload the camera quickly in the street (plenty off practice with my 1950's folders). I think if you use the camera in Bangkok you will come home with it. Its a fantastic camera but quite a different beast from an MP. I find it very refreshing to shoot different formats as each has there pluses (and minuses).
Unfortunately I'm leaving the country again a few day's otherwise you could have tried mine out.
gilpen123
Gil
Thanks for the thought Mike, it's ok Deecmber is a busy month for everyone. I saw some Delta 3200 at Aperture last month. I'll check it out again.
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gilpen123
Gil
Actually Matt I'm not really comparing just trying to get some opinions as to which I will get considering the premises I laid out. I'm not into wet printing, I did try it but not for me. I do have a Canon 9500 Mark II which I love the B&W print results.
gilpen123
Gil
I've been to Hongkong but was not able to handle any Bessa III there. I also looked and handled the MP and it seems to me over rated (pardon to the MP users) to carry that much price on it's head. One poster said the M3 is the MP w/o meter which I tend to agree. Actually the M3 seems to me much smoother though the MP (a few of them) were all new. I have a couple of 35s already but no Leica M with meter yet. I do have the CLE but for me is good for 28 and 40 due to it's smaller EBL and the lack of exposure lock is quite limiting in difficult lighting situation. So I finally deceide the M6 for my metered M and bought a 35 2.0 'cron V4 with the hood. The MP new in Hongkong is US$ 3.7K way cheaper than anywhere else and btw, I can't find any used MP there. I got myself a used M6 and 35 for US$ 2.7K and I'm a happy camper. The money I saved which I budgeted for $ 4K can be used for something else maybe a Bessa III in the future or wait for some new DRF. I decided I'll stick with 135 in the meantime since I have a good scanner to digitize the image for printing in my Canon 9500 II.
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sepiareverb
genius and moron
A good Leica lens on that M6 will produce negatives capable of magnificent prints at 16x20" without worry.
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ray*j*gun
Veteran
I know the RZ is a brick....I have one also, but the images it produces are the best I have seen in MF. I have a B&W darkroom so I can take advantage of the large neg. I guess what I'm saying is if your accustomed to the RZ's yield that will be hard to duplicate!
gilpen123
Gil
Yes I am as I did use the RB before the RZ and had some time with them. The mobility is more of an issue now as I do travel a lot. This is the main reason why I wanted to try the BessaIII or even a Mamiya 7II.
Turtle
Veteran
As a shooter of both 35mm (Leica M) and 120 (Mamiya 7) I would say without a shadow of a doubt get a M. If money is a factor I would go as far as saying forget the MP and get a clean late serial M6 and put the rest towards lenses. I think the MP is a 'sweeter' camera but for the price difference you can throw in a used 35 Summarit and possibly a 50mm planar too.
FWIW I generally print quite large and while the look is different, wait to see what Delta 100 or similar does at 20x16 from good RF lenses. Sure, the grain is there on close inspection but the detail is incredible.
The M is far quicker in use, ahs fewer film changes, has faster lenses available and is IMHO a much, much better street camera. I use the Mamiya when I know I can amble about and shoot more scenic shots where I dont need to be so quick off the mark.
A 35mm Delta 100 shot has finer grain than 120 TriX in my experience and about the same as Neopan 400. If you want untimate smooth tonality, there is no beating the larger neg, but a fixed lens? Not for me.
For my next trip to India I will be taking the Ms instead of the Mamiya kit I used last time. I realised that I enjoyed many of the images off D3200 and was often shooting (with mostly 400 film) at light levels that would allow good speeds and apertures from 100 speed film on 35mm; however, also having D3200 and 400 speed films would give me more flexibility in low light considering the ability to use wider apertures for equivalent DOF. Personal choices, but I would not want to go anywhere without either 35mm on 135 format or 65mm on 6x7.
FWIW I generally print quite large and while the look is different, wait to see what Delta 100 or similar does at 20x16 from good RF lenses. Sure, the grain is there on close inspection but the detail is incredible.
The M is far quicker in use, ahs fewer film changes, has faster lenses available and is IMHO a much, much better street camera. I use the Mamiya when I know I can amble about and shoot more scenic shots where I dont need to be so quick off the mark.
A 35mm Delta 100 shot has finer grain than 120 TriX in my experience and about the same as Neopan 400. If you want untimate smooth tonality, there is no beating the larger neg, but a fixed lens? Not for me.
For my next trip to India I will be taking the Ms instead of the Mamiya kit I used last time. I realised that I enjoyed many of the images off D3200 and was often shooting (with mostly 400 film) at light levels that would allow good speeds and apertures from 100 speed film on 35mm; however, also having D3200 and 400 speed films would give me more flexibility in low light considering the ability to use wider apertures for equivalent DOF. Personal choices, but I would not want to go anywhere without either 35mm on 135 format or 65mm on 6x7.
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I say buy the bessa and a M6... then you have both! and you have two new toys!
gilpen123
Gil
That's the idea.
akarin
Established
Half way through the thread, I thought the Mamiya 7ii would be a slam dunk, but then you already considered it. Would you consider other options? Fujifilm MF cameras are great for traveling as well. My favourite is the 6x4.5 GA645i, however there are multiple choices out there for you to choose from...all the way up to 6x9
gilpen123
Gil
Miya 7II with a 65 will be ideal for me if ever. It's not that expensive in Asia.